How much of a hassle to fly with a firearm? ***UPDATE***

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jimlongley
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Re: My experience at DFW and United

#46

Post by jimlongley »

bentcursor wrote:I then asked him if I could lock the outer luggage and he said something like "Why bother, they can open the zipper with a pencil." In any case, I locked my bag and then worrried for the next four hours whether I'd ever see my gun again.

Well, everything worked out and gun and daddy are back together. My recommendation - leave plenty of time, get a sturdy hard-shell piece of luggage and lock everything after the inspection.
Yup, but I prefer not to mess up my pencils or pens - OOOOPSSSS, did I say that out loud?
bentcursor wrote:My recommendation - leave plenty of time, get a sturdy hard-shell piece of luggage and lock everything after the inspection.
Yup!!!!!
anygunanywhere wrote:First, you must take your luggage to the ticket counter. You can not use the curbside service when transporting firearms. Ever.
Except at some airports like Dallas Love Field.
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stevie_d_64
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#47

Post by stevie_d_64 »

Jim101 wrote:I just ordered up a Gun Safe from Center-Mass, I'll be using it in my truck and when I fly, seems like the way to go, thanks Steve.......

Jim
I've actually got another one on order for a minimal impact on space when I fly...

I'm curious to see what impact this type of case will have on the airline ticket counter folks and TSA screeners when I have to secure it in that fashion...There's not enough room to stow the ammo separately in an appropriate container, so I got to figure something out in that regard...

I normally use one of those Pelican cases that has worked real well for the process so far...Going to try this new thing/option...
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anygunanywhere
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#48

Post by anygunanywhere »

Although the airlines and TSA have the "rules" posted, they are not exact. nor set in stone. Given the number of times I fly with firearms each year and the number of times I do the checked firearms waltz through the airport, I am amazed at the amount of inconsistency that exists.
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Jim101
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#49

Post by Jim101 »

Steve,

When we fly for vacation, I will be taking the Kel-Tec and I figure that "safe" should have room for the gun and ammo..

Jim
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stevie_d_64
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#50

Post by stevie_d_64 »

anygunanywhere wrote:Although the airlines and TSA have the "rules" posted, they are not exact. nor set in stone. Given the number of times I fly with firearms each year and the number of times I do the checked firearms waltz through the airport, I am amazed at the amount of inconsistency that exists.
I would say that the inconsistencies are due to a direct correlation between the perceived acceptances of "guns" in that area, and the extra special treatment you get in some locals...
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Jim101
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#51

Post by Jim101 »

Steve,
Got my gun-safe yesterday, I really like it, well made.. Now, can I put some ammo in that case also? With the gun? I have a small plastic box that will hold 8 rounds. Is it legal to have the gun,clip,ammo in the same locked box? If they don't like it, will they take the ammo?

Thanks,

Jim
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stevie_d_64
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#52

Post by stevie_d_64 »

Jim101 wrote:Steve,
Got my gun-safe yesterday, I really like it, well made.. Now, can I put some ammo in that case also? With the gun? I have a small plastic box that will hold 8 rounds. Is it legal to have the gun,clip,ammo in the same locked box? If they don't like it, will they take the ammo?

Thanks,

Jim
I think it still depends on where your going to and from...

I'd ask Jim Longley about the setup, and see what he says...PM him and give him the specifics...

I ordered another one for the same purpose, to have a lower volume method to transport a firearm in checked baggage setup...

My intent was to only carry the handgun, two "empty" mags, and place 21 rounds of ammo in the thing...Thats of course if you still carry the post ban mags...Of which I may need to drill a few more holes as those become more prevalent in my collection... :wink:

My holster of course would be carried in the common area of the checked baggage...

I was thinking of carving out 21 holes in the padding and see if that'll fly...That way I don't have to have a box that takes up a lot of bulk, and that obviously doesn't fit in the safe...The intent of the box was to make sure ammo doesn't fly around loose in a container and possibly (however unlikely) a primer gets struck and you get that "banging" sensation...Know what I mean verne...

My thinking is that the holes will be snug enough, and even retain better than a reloader ammo box I normally have carried in the past...But in a larger "lockable" case...

Run it by Jim Longley and see what he says...

If it were me...You'd be good to go...But then again who ever listens to me... :lol:
Last edited by stevie_d_64 on Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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stevie_d_64
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#53

Post by stevie_d_64 »

The only modification I can think of that I may do is see if the ammo can really be transported outside the gunsafe/case, within the same bag you check...Sometimes they have a problem with that...

But if the ammo is carried in an approved container, then why does it have to be with the gun??? In some cases, or not...

See, there's just too many variables that create a lot of questions...

If they allow it, you may not need to carve out any holes in that padding in your new "low profile" safe...

I refer you to our friendly nieghborhood TSA guy Jim... :lol:
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jimlongley
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#54

Post by jimlongley »

I wouldn't carve holes in the padding, the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) where it is pretty much carved in stone, even if it does suffer from interpretation by the unknowing (TSA types among them,) states that ammunition needs to be an a wood, fiber, or metal...WAIT!!! let me look it up and post it again...or didn't I already post it? :lol: :lol:

From 49CFR175(A)(5)

(5) Small-arms ammunition for personal use carried by a crewmember or passenger in his baggage (excluding carry-on baggage) if securely packed in fiber, wood or metal boxes, or other packagings specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.

Anyway, the gun case's foam liner is not designed to carry ammunition, even it's carved up, so an overenthusiastic TSA screener is likely to see to it that you "voluntarily surrender" the ammo at a minimum. The case is not "designed", in the strictest sense of the term, to carry ammo. The safest thing would be, if you must carry less than a full box (and even partial boxes fit in the rule above) to get a target block like someone mentioned earlier, something that is obviously designed to hold ammo and fits under the "other packagings" portion (plastic.)

We had quite a discussion about this when a duck hunter came through with a bandolier in his bag, with about 30 rounds of shotgun shells in it. We came to the conclusion that the bandolier was fiber and designed to carry ammo, and was pretty secure in the way ir was rolled and wrapped. Whether this conclusion would have been reached by TSA people with less of a sense of humor (or ridiculous or sublime) is subject to conjecture.

There is nothing in the CFR that says primers must be protected, it says the ammo must be securely packed in an ammo container. This has also led to much debate about loaded magazines (one screener opined that a loaded magazine was equivalent to a loaded gun, even if the mag was well separated from the gun, not all of us are knowledgeable or even common sensical) and the conclusion was that although magazines are designed to carry ammo, to do so securely they must either be in a magazine holder or in a gun, otherwise rounds can and do pop out (the voice of experience here if nothin else, loose mags in pockets can lose rounds.) The consensus was that if a magazine with rounds came through our area, and it was in a mag holder that fastened closed ie a LEO type, then it would be acceptable, but not in open top puoches, such as what I carry. You can't win them all.

Educating people to the difference between magazines and clips has also been fun, but I did win a concession that a bandolier of Garand clips (loaded) would have to be considered: fiber and metal; secure; and a packaging designed to carry small amounts of ammo (at eight rounds per CLIP.)

And I must reiterate, this applies only to conditions that existed at the time and place of the discussion and may not apply when you have your butt in a wringer because you decided to push the edge of the envelope.

There is a lot of interesting reading in the CFR, and Chas can tell you that a lot of it is about as clear as mud, but just about every scenario concerning checking firearms and ammo in baggage is covered, and it only take a few words.

Me, the next time I fly with a gun, my ammo is going in a .223 ammo box, the sturdy military model, in boxes of its own. The last time I flew some screener got in my bag and emptied out my ammo boxes, so all I had was empty boxes when I got where I was going. I do have to admit that I was a screener myself at the time and that they did send my ammo, in another box. They also wrapped my bag in about 50 yards of Saran wrap, but I knew about that trick and had a sharp knife easily accessible in a side pocket so I was able to cut it free. You should have seen my sirprise when I got to my rental car and started to strap up, only to find my ammo boxes empty.

For further reference, 49CFR1544.203f is included here.

(f) Firearms in checked baggage. No aircraft operator may knowingly permit any person to transport in checked baggage:

(1) Any loaded firearm(s).

(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing before checking the baggage that any firearm carried in the baggage is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container;

(iii) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the individual checking the baggage retains the key or combination; and

(iv) The checked baggage containing the firearm is carried in an area that is inaccessible to passengers, and is not carried in the flightcrew compartment,.

(3) Any unauthorized explosive or incendiary.

(g) Ammunition. This section does not prohibit the carriage of ammunition in checked baggage or in the same container as a firearm. Title 49 CFR part 175 provides additional requirements governing carriage of ammunition on aircraft.


And I am still working on my "comprehensive" "Jim's handy guide to flying with your gun in checked baggage to avoid unnecessary delays and other discomfort including chats with the Transportation Security Administration and Law Enforcement Officers."

I hope that title isn't too unwieldy, I expect to be paid by the letter. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Jim101
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#55

Post by Jim101 »

All good information....We will be flying (American Airlines) from DFW to Orlando, Fl. next month. I want to take my Kel-Tec (to be pruchased this weekend at the Big Town Gun Show). I'll be using the car safe for the gun and have a small, made for ammo plastic case I would like to use for (7) rounds, now, if I put it (ammo) in the car safe, isth the gun and TSA doesn't like it, can I just have it in the same luggage or what? The luggage will be hard sided that uses a key lock.
Should I call American and ask them?
Thanks,
Jim
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stevie_d_64
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#56

Post by stevie_d_64 »

Yeah...I was thinking that may be the case...

So modifying the safe's padding, may not be acceptable...

But carrying the ammo in an approved box, separate from the locked case where the firearm is appears to be ok...

I used to just have everything locked up together in a nice package before...Now I gotta see if I can modify that a bit with this new system/option...
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Jim101
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#57

Post by Jim101 »

Steve,
What I found is an "ammo wallet" for ~$4 at Sportsman's Warehouse, it's made of translucent plastic and can hold ~16 rounds of 9mm. It's flat and snaps together to hold the ammo in place and not touching each other..

Jim
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Jim101
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#58

Post by Jim101 »

To all,

I'm getting feedback from other boards that the ammo has to be in the orginial ammo box and full......is that true?? AND has to be in the same lock box as the gun? So my ammo wallet with (8) rounds either in the lock box or just in my suticase is no good??

Thanks,

Jim
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anygunanywhere
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#59

Post by anygunanywhere »

Read the airline's rules. Most say "original container or appropriate box designed to carry ammunition" or something similar.

I have never heard of the full rule. I have flown with partial boxes.

I am pretty sure it can not be in same locked container as the firearm unless it is a long gun. I have two lockable boxes, one for pistols, one for ammo.

But then, you never know.
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jimlongley
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#60

Post by jimlongley »

Jim101 wrote:To all,

I'm getting feedback from other boards that the ammo has to be in the orginial ammo box and full......is that true?? AND has to be in the same lock box as the gun? So my ammo wallet with (8) rounds either in the lock box or just in my suticase is no good??

Thanks,

Jim
Not at my airport, we follow the law to the letter, see above reference to 49CFR175(A)(5), and original packaging is not mentioned, nor is full.

It also does not have to be in the same lock box, and can be just in the suitcase, but it can also be in the locked box without reference to the type of gun.

The airlines can add rules of their own, above and beyond the law, but TSA does not enforce those rules, or isn't supposed to. If an airline requires original packaging, and full, and specific placement of the box, well, that's the reason I included the caveat at the start of this thread. LOOK IT UP!!!! Get on the airline's web site, or get them on the phone and have them provide a hard copy of their rules, and carry that along when you travel.

I still can't imagine why you would only take eight rounds, when I take my .45s I have to take enough to fill three mags and one in the pipe, or at least 28 rounds, and if I take my XD9, I start with 52. :lol:
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