Going to Big Bend to camp

[alexrex20]

Well Alex...no disrespect intended, but clearly you have never been in Colorado Canyon. There are no roads. No pickups. No running away. You are in a raft with sheer vertical rock canyon walls that rise in places many humdreds of feet. The first indication you will have of an ambush is a fusilade of bullets. If you camp for the night, you camp on a small flat spot, none of which is more than 50 yards long and perhaps 25 feet wide from the edge of the river to the rock walls of the canyon and overlooked from the Mexican side for many hundreds of yards up and down the river. There are some of those spots on the Mexican side for the truly adventurous. The only way in or out is by boat, unless you like swimming. To put it gently, anyone in the canyon is a sitting duck. And over the years, many have been shot at.

And yes, it would be illegal to carry weapons. Judged by 12 or carried by six. Your choice. If I were going to ride the river though, the choice is pretty simple. Camping off the river is somewhat different, but the whole area is, as the Park Ranger observed above, a place where you'd better be armed. All of which is a shame because it used to be great fun. I do agree with your last sentence. I lived there for almost 9 years. I won't be going on the river again.

My choice would be to pick some place a bit safer to camp/raft.

[PeteCamp]

Alex...Yes sir. It is much more dangerous today than it was when I lived there. I love the area, but the problems in Mexico have made it, in my opinion, not worth the risk. Maybe some day we'll be able to visit there in relative safety again and let our kids and grandkids see one of the most amazing places on the planet.

[alexrex20]

Is Colorado Canyon within Big Bend National Park? I love the region and I love primitive camping at Big Bend (I've made the 10hr drive 6 times so far), but I've never ventured too far off the beaten path.

I googled those names you posted earlier. It's a shame what happened to them. It's also a shame that the region has not gotten any safer in the 20 years since...

[pbwalker]

Is any part of the park USACE land? I don't believe so, but I could be wrong.

As for the long gun, it is my understanding that the recent passage of the bill that allows carry in Nation Parks states that each NP will follow the rules of the state in which they reside. Now, IIRC Texas does not have any laws against openly carrying a long gun. So I would then assume that you are not breaking any laws by carrying a rifle in the park.

I'm not advocating doing this, and I wouldn't personally (I'd have mine in a food saver bag or a large pelican case and I'd be hugging the American shoreline)...but all this talk about it being illegal to conceal a long gun is wrong IMO.

I'm too tired and lazy to look it up, so someone please correct me if I am wrong (with citations if possible).

Does anyone have the link to the law saying carrying a concealed long gun is illegal in TX?

[alexrex20]

I did a little more research and it seems you can open carry a long gun in a national park, because as you said they follow state law.

State law does allow open carry of a long gun, but strictly prohibits its display or discharge in a state park.

Per Texas Parks & Wildlife Code:

(d) Arms and Firearms. It is an offense for any person to display or discharge an arm or firearm in a state park, unless:

the person is participating in a public hunting activity within the state park that has been authorized by written order of the director so long as the person is in compliance with the applicable public hunting rules and regulations; or
the person has been authorized by written order of the director.

[CC Italian]

As for the long gun, it is my understanding that the recent passage of the bill that allows carry in Nation Parks states that each NP will follow the rules of the state in which they reside. Now, IIRC Texas does not have any laws against openly carrying a long gun. So I would then assume that you are not breaking any laws by carrying a rifle in the park.

PB this is what I was talking about last night. Yes it is legal to carry openly in some NP http://www.nps.gov/yell/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm but Texas state parks have this which I also posted last night and alexrex20 did again tonight.


Per Texas Parks & Wildlife Code:
(d) Arms and Firearms. It is an offense for any person to display or discharge an arm or firearm in a state park, unless:

the person is participating in a public hunting activity within the state park that has been authorized by written order of the director so long as the person is in compliance with the applicable public hunting rules and regulations; or
the person has been authorized by written order of the director.

So my point is if the NP follow the rules of the state laws you CAN NOT display a firearm in a Texas state park. Which means you can't display it in a NP in Texas(Big Bend NP) because they follow state laws.

I have seen first hand that people open carry rifles and handguns in NP because I went to Yellowstone and saw several open carrying rifles. This is because Wyoming(check link above allows open carry) because the states that the parks reside allow open carry of a long gun in there park. Texas is not one of those states unless if falls under the wildlife code quoted by alex and myself.

So you can bring a rifle but don't try and go hiking with it. Let's be honest your not going to conceal a long barrel anyways. I you bring the rifle leave it in the car. Sleep in your tent with your handgun. That is what I do in state parks!

[PeteCamp]

Is Colorado Canyon within Big Bend National Park? I love the region and I love primitive camping at Big Bend (I've made the 10hr drive 6 times so far), but I've never ventured too far off the beaten path.

I googled those names you posted earlier. It's a shame what happened to them. It's also a shame that the region has not gotten any safer in the 20 years since...

You know I wasn't sure because the river winds through both National and State Parks so I looked:

Colorado Canyon is outside the boundaries of Big Bend National Park and is situated within Big Bend Ranch State Park. It is regulated by Texas Parks and Wildlife Department which requires a small user fee for access.

They may have some new take out points, but I seem to remember that Lajitas is right on the western edge of the NP. The state park had been deeded but was not officially open when I lived there. If you've never been to the Basin, you've missed a wonderful place to stay high up in the mountains (5401 feet and NO PHONES!).

I found a pretty good picture of Colorado Canyon
http://www.flickr.com/photos/visitbigbend/3727641481/

[alexrex20]

You're making it very hard for me to choose to NOT visit Colorado Canyon!

I've never officially camped in Chisos Basin. Typically we just make a quick setup for the night because we arrive after hours, then book a primitive site in the backcountry. It's definitely a fun drive into and out of the Basin. The last visit to Big Bend was during/after a hellacious rainstorm. It turned out to be a blessing because it cooled down the mid-June temps, and also filled up the rivers and waterfalls. Who would've thought you'd see a waterfall like this in the desert!



The time before that, we were camped at the highest campsite on Emory Peak, with winds gusting to 70mph. It was quite a night!

[CC Italian]

Are state parks better for dogs?

From my experience I would say yes but not that much more. About half way down on link.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/park ... gulations/

We have brought our lab with us to only 1 state park around Houston 4 times. We never had a problem but you basically have the dog on a leash all the time unless in the tent with you. There are some trails that don't allow dogs but some do. People have dogs all the time when I go. Just read up or call the park you are going to. The rangers will be more then kind enough to answer all your questions.

The one place I know they can't go is the water! When we pulled into the park the ranger said "lab, no water for you". She loves water and if we took her off the leash she would probably run in the lake. This is not allowed!

[alexrex20]

I've been to dozens of state parks all over Texas and have never had issues with my dog getting in the water in "designated swimming areas." I keep my dog on a leash, even when in the water, and have never been asked to remove my dog by campers or rangers. In the early mornings before it gets busy, I'll even let her off leash to play some long-distance fetch in the river.

I wonder what TPWD defines as a "designated swimming area" because I've never seen any kind of enforcement.

[Rex B]

So my point is if the NP follow the rules of the state laws you CAN NOT display a firearm in a Texas state park. Which means you can't display it in a NP in Texas(Big Bend NP) because they follow state laws.

This doesn't make sense to me.
Texas law prohibits open display of firearms in STATE parks. This has no bearing on National parks.
Texas law allows open carry of long guns. National Parks mirror the state law, so NPs in Texas should allow open carry of long guns.

[Pawpaw]

Texas law prohibits open display of firearms in STATE parks.

I did not know this. Learn something new every day.

[pbwalker]

So my point is if the NP follow the rules of the state laws you CAN NOT display a firearm in a Texas state park. Which means you can't display it in a NP in Texas(Big Bend NP) because they follow state laws.

This doesn't make sense to me.
Texas law prohibits open display of firearms in STATE parks. This has no bearing on National parks.
Texas law allows open carry of long guns. National Parks mirror the state law, so NPs in Texas should allow open carry of long guns.

I'll just piggy back on Rex B's post as my thoughts are the same as his. Assuming that because TX law prohibits open carry of a long gun in state parks that it is somehow illegal in national parks is a bit of a stretch. There are a lot of assumptions made.

I could see your point if the law was written in a vague manner, such as wording it with "Parks" instead of "State Parks". But because TX doesn't allow open carry (of Long Guns) in state parks ≠ no open carry (of Long Guns) in national parks.

[Rex B]

We spent a week in BBNP last September, first time. I researched this subject quite a bit beforehand.
I carried concealed everywhere except the park HQ buildings. I kept a discretely-cased long gun (SU16) in my vehicle.
We did some short hikes in some very remote places, and often were the only humans in a fairly large area. It was a bit spooky in places.

I was never certain which NP buildings were off-limits for carry, such as the big restaurant in the same building as the gift shop and lodging check-in. For that matter, was the lodging (our room) off-limits as well? All are federal buildings.

[tommyg]

There is too much trouble near the Mex border I would avoid Big Bend like the plague
Don't go out of your way to put yourself in a situation where you might have to use old .357
Go camping some place else