Man accused of inproperly passing Concealed Weapons students

[Crossfire]

4, 8 hour days is 32 hours.

So, you, yourself, personally, actually spent 4 hours ON THE RANGE and SHOOTING to make the 36 hour minimum, right? Not watching, not listening, not driving to the range...not doing anything else other than pulling the trigger? 4 hours.... really?

[wgoforth]

4, 8 hour days is 32 hours.

So, you, yourself, personally, actually spent 4 hours ON THE RANGE and SHOOTING to make the 36 hour minimum, right? Not watching, not listening, not driving to the range...not doing anything else other than pulling the trigger? 4 hours.... really?

My math is terrible, lol. Your right. It was 36. No, of course it wasn't 4 personally on the range and wasn't meaning it was. My math was off (sorry public schools) on the in class portion.

[Crossfire]

To answer your original question of what do you do with a large class and small range... here is what we do.

Don't send everyone to the range at the same time. We hold our class size down to 32 because we have 8 shooting lanes on the range. 16 people go to the range. 16 people eat lunch while watching "The NRA's Guide to Personal Protection Inside the Home" (DPS approved video in 2005, 60 minutes long.)

It takes about an hour for 2 rounds of 8 shooters, so that works out great. So, what do the other 8 students do at the range when they aren't shooting? They are watching, observing, helping keep the 8 shooters pointed in the right direction and out of trouble. In other words, practicing gun safety. I think that qualifies as instruction.

They get done shooting and headed back to class about the same time the video is done and those students are headed to the range. Now, understand, you cannot manage this scenario all by yourself. It requires one instructor in the classroom, and one on the range at all times. And an extra RSO to help manage the range. Luckily, there are 2 of us, so we only have to come up with one other to help RSO.

Now, knowing you aren't good at math, you need to get your wife to figure out for you how many students you can have in a class to make this work for you.

[speedsix]

...I coulda toldja that wgoforth ain't too good at math...he thinks that two .380s = a .45

[wgoforth]

...I coulda toldja that wgoforth ain't too good at math...he thinks that two .380s = a .45

Lol.... how do you think I ended up with 10 kids! If that aint multiplication, I don't know WHAT is!

[speedsix]

...gifts from God...nobody could possibly DESERVE so much happiness!!!
...hope you don't mind if we start callin' you "Brer wgoforth"...

[wgoforth]

...gifts from God...nobody could possibly DESERVE so much happiness!!!
...hope you don't mind if we start callin' you "Brer wgoforth"...

Lol.... might get you in trouble with the PC police! That's one of the many old great stories accused of being racist, ugh. BTW, Disney Studios has saidthey will NEVER sell Song of the South in the US.... although it is popular in other countries.

[WSimons]

I can't remember his name but the guy who taught my class wasn't the greatest. He handed us the written tests and then read off the answers. I don't think he said anything to anyone during the shooting portion as long as they weren't doing anything unsafe. I know my shooting wasn't at its best that day, given that I had a "flier" resulting from firing as a casing from the next guy's .45 pinged off my glasses. I'm guessing "on paper=pass."
It kind've irked me that he didn't actively discourage some of the discussion, such as one lady who was basically trying to clarify whether or not she can get away with shooting anyone on her land. Don't get me wrong, if someone looks suspicious I'd grab a gun, but "Shoot first, ask questions later" (Or... call the police later) is a BAD idea if there's no imminent threat, IMO. Also, I was shocked at the number of people who'd never, ever, ever handled a gun before, much less fired a pistol. I feel guilty acting like they SHOULDN'T have been there but I feel that taking a CHL course is something you should work up to, not just dive right into.

Another amusing side note: The instructor advised against deliberately shooting to maim, which is an oft-discussed point, but advocated "less than lethal" weapons like pepper spray, tazers, etc... I stepped aside during lunch and asked if it wouldn't be prudent, since he recommended those things, to advise that they're STILL deadly, and STILL considered weapons. His response? "Oh, well, that's not what I'm here to teach."
.... Really?

Or am I just bein' too hard on the guy?

[wgoforth]

I can't remember his name but the guy who taught my class wasn't the greatest. He handed us the written tests and then read off the answers. I don't think he said anything to anyone during the shooting portion as long as they weren't doing anything unsafe. I know my shooting wasn't at its best that day, given that I had a "flier" resulting from firing as a casing from the next guy's .45 pinged off my glasses. I'm guessing "on paper=pass."
It kind've irked me that he didn't actively discourage some of the discussion, such as one lady who was basically trying to clarify whether or not she can get away with shooting anyone on her land. Don't get me wrong, if someone looks suspicious I'd grab a gun, but "Shoot first, ask questions later" (Or... call the police later) is a BAD idea if there's no imminent threat, IMO. Also, I was shocked at the number of people who'd never, ever, ever handled a gun before, much less fired a pistol. I feel guilty acting like they SHOULDN'T have been there but I feel that taking a CHL course is something you should work up to, not just dive right into.

Another amusing side note: The instructor advised against deliberately shooting to maim, which is an oft-discussed point, but advocated "less than lethal" weapons like pepper spray, tazers, etc... I stepped aside during lunch and asked if it wouldn't be prudent, since he recommended those things, to advise that they're STILL deadly, and STILL considered weapons. His response? "Oh, well, that's not what I'm here to teach."
.... Really?

Or am I just bein' too hard on the guy?

My personal thought is like you... CHL class should be after you are knowledgeable with the firearm. I spent many hours at the range and with other shooters to become proficient. Only when I knew I could keep my shots in the 8-9-10 ring did I go after my CHL. Same with my wife. But, every class I have seen, there are those who have not practiced or in some cases, haven't even BOUGHT a gun yet...assuming we supply the guns. While I believe that foolish, if they want to spend the money and risk being failed, most instructors will be happy to take their money. We might ENCOURAGE them to take a Basics class, but can't require it if the apply. They get 3 tries on the shooting portion... if they blow 2 of them, most would encourage them to leave and practice or take a basic before they blow their third wish.

[WSimons]

That's the funny part; there was no retry... everyone passed on the first go, even those who'd never shot a gun before and came trying to qualify with an old .25 (no joke)

[Keith B]

That's the funny part; there was no retry... everyone passed on the first go, even those who'd never shot a gun before and came trying to qualify with an old .25 (no joke)

Hope your instructor didn't allow them to qualify with that. Has to be a .32 cal minimum.

[wgoforth]

That's the funny part; there was no retry... everyone passed on the first go, even those who'd never shot a gun before and came trying to qualify with an old .25 (no joke)

Ewww... big no-no. I might go the DPS with such blatant issues you outline here. Most things I'd cut instructor slack, saying matter of opinion/interpretation, but that means he is lying on government forms and cheating his students.

[speedsix]

...we shot...that's all...no loading or unloading...they were only Glocks...nothing complicated...but they'd load them and we'd shoot...then they'd change mags and we'd shoot...I wouldn't call that a real proficiency test...when there were stoppages...(and there were many )...the rangemaster said keep the muzzle downrange and raise our hand...he came and cleared it...seemed odd...all three times I qualified there, that's their way of doing it...punching holes is only part of proficiency...didn't see anyone using their own weapons...

[WSimons]

That's the funny part; there was no retry... everyone passed on the first go, even those who'd never shot a gun before and came trying to qualify with an old .25 (no joke)

Hope your instructor didn't allow them to qualify with that. Has to be a .32 cal minimum.

That's the funny part; there was no retry... everyone passed on the first go, even those who'd never shot a gun before and came trying to qualify with an old .25 (no joke)

Ewww... big no-no. I might go the DPS with such blatant issues you outline here. Most things I'd cut instructor slack, saying matter of opinion/interpretation, but that means he is lying on government forms and cheating his students.

Nope, no worries, he told the old ladies who planned on sharing the .25 that they could use his Kimber. (No. Again, I am not kidding.)
Thankfully, I'd taken the class with an old friend and his dad, and between the three of us we had an old Smith .357, a Taurus Mdl 85, a Walther P99, an LCP, and an SR9, and a crapton of .38SPL and 9mm ammo and had no issues giving them a rundown on whichever gun they were more comfortable with and letting them use ours.

[wgoforth]

...we shot...that's all...no loading or unloading...they were only Glocks...nothing complicated...but they'd load them and we'd shoot...then they'd change mags and we'd shoot...I wouldn't call that a real proficiency test...when there were stoppages...(and there were many )...the rangemaster said keep the muzzle downrange and raise our hand...he came and cleared it...seemed odd...all three times I qualified there, that's their way of doing it...punching holes is only part of proficiency...didn't see anyone using their own weapons...

The Sarge did tell us that if there was someone who had say arthritis, if they could demonstrate they could load and rack once, we could do it the other times for them if needed.