Inappropriate propagandizing during CHL class

[matrix]

Thomas, what's your point? I just followed where the posts led. Don't forget, it takes 2 (or in this case, upwards of 6 to tango). Also, sanctimony doesn't look good on anyone.

You joined about 14 hours ago and at this point you have made 21 posts. You complain about something you claim is inappropriate, then you later admit that the instructor's comments were very short and didn't impact his presenting of the class material. Numerous times throughout your posts you have used Brady style comments on gun issues.

In short, you are clearly a troll. Stop now or you're gone. You aren't here to ask legitimate questions or to discuss issues; you are here to start an argument and pitch anti-gun rhetoric. Don't respond with yet another argument or a denial, just stop.

Chas.

Let me quote the esteemed Mr. Cotton himself:

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Every single last fair minded person reading this will clearly see that I have not broken a single forum rule. You're making up new rules Mr. Cotton (why does it matter how many posts I posted? I had some time last night). Also, I had to google this "Brady" stuff. Now I know what it is, and I have never read them before. If you'll notice, I was having a decent discussion with several members. Actual ideas are being exchanged. Must you really have unanimity of thought in the forum? There's a word for what you're doing: censorship.

Also, did you notice the posts directed at me by member VMI77? They were vitriolic, personal, dismissive of me, mean-spirited, and uncalled for. Yet, I still didn't bite and engage in that. Discernible, fair-minded readers will clearly gather that by going over the thread. But he happens to agree with you on everything you care about, so he/she did not receive any stern posts calling him a "troll" and threatening expulsion.

Judging by your tone and general drift, I assume you'll "ban" me now (because I had the audacity to actually respond like a human being). That's a shame because I think that I could be a productive member of this forum/community and contribute to the discussions taking place here.

[matrix]

1. did you pass?
2. did you garner the information you need to comfortably carry a concealed handgun?

if the answer is yes to the above, don't sweat it.. in 5 years, when you take your renewal class, shop around a bit. Hang out here and get information, ask questions if you still seek answers.

Hey, if I can put up with my 'L' family during the holidays, I can sit in a 10 hour class filled with propaganda.. especially if the outcome is positive for me

Yes and yes. And sit through it is exactly what I did. Like I said earlier, it wasn't that big of a deal but I just found it distasteful. Imagine if you had to sit through a CHL class peppered with random put-downs of Republicans/conservatives and praise for the president... Like I said, interesting experience.

[MadMonkey]

After skimming this thread as an outside observer, I have to agree with Mr. Cotton

[Charles L. Cotton]

Judging by your tone and general drift, I assume you'll "ban" me now . . . That's a shame because I think that I could be a productive member of this forum/community and contribute to the discussions taking place here.

Then stop trolling and do so, but do it now. You'll be gone on your next post of you continue.
Chas.

[JJVP]

Judging by your tone and general drift, I assume you'll "ban" me now . . . That's a shame because I think that I could be a productive member of this forum/community and contribute to the discussions taking place here.

Then stop trolling and do so, but do it now. You'll be gone on your next post of you continue.
Chas.

He is nothing more than a Brady bunch troll. Has done nothing but spew out Brady bunch propaganda in every post.

[GaryTx]

Judging by your tone and general drift, I assume you'll "ban" me now . . . That's a shame because I think that I could be a productive member of this forum/community and contribute to the discussions taking place here.

Then stop trolling and do so, but do it now. You'll be gone on your next post of you continue.
Chas.

It sure won't be any loss if he's gone.

[Crossfire]

Yes and yes. And sit through it is exactly what I did. Like I said earlier, it wasn't that big of a deal but I just found it distasteful. Imagine if you had to sit through a CHL class peppered with random put-downs of Republicans/conservatives and praise for the president... Like I said, interesting experience.

While we are all so very sorry that your CHL class was not a pleasant experience for you, we are now a bit tired of hearing about it. We got it. You made your point.

Perhaps you should have asked your friends for a class recommendation before plunking down your hard earned dollars. But I suppose that would have been difficult, given that birds of a feather tend to flock together. Probably not too many of your Obama loving, Democrat, "common-sense gun control law" supporting friends have taken a CHL class. Or, perhaps, given your rather abrasive demeanor, you have no friends at all. Again, how unfortunate for you.

We also apologize that your initial experience here has been less than you had hoped for. Once again, a little prior research might have served you well. Yes, we ARE a bunch of gun-toting, conservative Republicans, with a few libertarians thrown in, as well as a couple of well behaved liberals. (But every family has a few black sheep. )

If you came just to stir up trouble, then you will not find a happy welcome here. We discuss issues that are important to the CHL community. We try not to whine, complain, argue, and pout. That is just counter-productive. If that is not your cup of tea, then you should go drink the kool-aid elsewhere.

So, we do wish you the best. Happy trails to you. Adios, amigo. Syanara. Auf wiedersehen. Good night.

[speedsix]

...I really resent the fact that Crossfire din't include me while describing us..."unaware old guy"...I deserved to be mentioned, too... (but, I hasten to add, I'm NOT pouting...)

[Crossfire]

...I really resent the fact that Crossfire din't include me while describing us..."unaware old guy"...I deserved to be mentioned, too... (but, I hasten to add, I'm NOT pouting...)

Speedsix - I do my best to be an equal opportunity insulter. Sorry I left you out! Score one for the "unaware old guys"!

[speedsix]

...I all better now...thankyberrymuch!!!

[pbwalker]

Yes and yes. And sit through it is exactly what I did. Like I said earlier, it wasn't that big of a deal but I just found it distasteful. Imagine if you had to sit through a CHL class peppered with random put-downs of Republicans/conservatives and praise for the president... Like I said, interesting experience.

While we are all so very sorry that your CHL class was not a pleasant experience for you, we are now a bit tired of hearing about it. We got it. You made your point.

Perhaps you should have asked your friends for a class recommendation before plunking down your hard earned dollars. But I suppose that would have been difficult, given that birds of a feather tend to flock together. Probably not too many of your Obama loving, Democrat, "common-sense gun control law" supporting friends have taken a CHL class. Or, perhaps, given your rather abrasive demeanor, you have no friends at all. Again, how unfortunate for you.

We also apologize that your initial experience here has been less than you had hoped for. Once again, a little prior research might have served you well. Yes, we ARE a bunch of gun-toting, conservative Republicans, with a few libertarians thrown in, as well as a couple of well behaved liberals. (But every family has a few black sheep. )

If you came just to stir up trouble, then you will not find a happy welcome here. We discuss issues that are important to the CHL community. We try not to whine, complain, argue, and pout. That is just counter-productive. If that is not your cup of tea, then you should go drink the kool-aid elsewhere.

So, we do wish you the best. Happy trails to you. Adios, amigo. Syanara. Auf wiedersehen. Good night.

Violation of Rule #2?

[pcgizzmo]

Well, I'm definitely glad to hear that not everyone has to sit through things like that for the sin of wanting to obtain a CHL. Popular opinion in this forum notwithstanding, not everybody who voted for Obama is a gun-grabbing, "guns-are-evil" person. I, for example, am very much in favor of the 2nd amendment and reserve my right to protect myself and my family from would-be assailants.

Welcome.

Strange first post but to each his own. I agree that the political statements were uncalled for in your class but I'm sure as you already know most people actively involved in the gun community are not supportive of the current president because of his stance on guns, his attorney generals stance on guns etc..

Gizzmo, I'm glad you agree with me about the inappropriate context to be making those statements, and yes, I am totally aware of how people in the "gun community" perceive the president. I just happen to disagree with most of the "gun community." (BTW, am I in the gun community? I have a CHL, own a gun, carry as often circumstances permit, etc etc.) And why you find my 1st post "strange" is a mystery to me. It's more than tangentially gun-related (right out of forum rules), and I believe posted in the appropriate folder (political issues). What's strange about that?

Yes, I think your in the gun community. I don't always agree 100% with everyone either so that's OK. In fact I bet we all don't agree on something gun related. When it comes to politics though my guess and it's just a guess you will find most Democrat's ( Anti-gun) and most (Republicans) pro gun. Notice I said "Most" but not all. I'm also not labeling you either because I don't vote party lines. I have voted for Democrats in the past and I'm not ashamed to state it on a public forum.

Anyway, back to why I said "interesting first post" It may prove to be a hot topic for a first post which comes across a little trollish. Not that you meant it to be or that you are I just thought it was interesting that's all. Like I said. "Welcome to the forum".

[pcgizzmo]

Crap! I just read through all the posts. This did become a hot topic. See matrix. That's why I said what I did.

[VMI77]

A clinically depressed person should not be allowed to buy a firearm, but I see no reason to take away their other constitutional right, the right to vote.

So depressed people give up their right to self-defense? Very generous of you not to take away their right to vote --probably because you think depressed people are more likely to vote a straight Democratic ticket.

You've obviously not given a wit of thought to your "common sense" regulations. Just what do you think depressed people are going to do if they know getting treatment is going to result in stigmatization and denial of their right to self-defense? Did it occur to you that taking away basic rights based on vague psychological concepts might cause people to avoid treatment? That makes the denial of gun and self-defense rights self-selective. So obviously, treatment will have to be coerced, and just as obviously, anyone who displays anything that might be considered signs of depression will have to be coerced into treatment, or everyone buying a guy will have to have a psychiatric evaluation --otherwise, depressed people will still be able to buy guns.

VM, your vitriol and obvious attempts to get personal with me make it hard for me to respond to you. Unless you cool off a little bit, this will be my last response to you. I'm not sure what the exact definition of a troll is on this forum, but I'm pretty sure you're trolling me. Let's calm down and talk, OK?

Clinical depression is not a "vague psychological concept." It is a real disease with real symptoms. Depressed people are much more likely to commit suicide or at least have suicidal ideation, so I would submit to you that it's probably not a good idea to put a gun in their hands. They are also much more likely than the general population to go on murder-suicide sprees (a la Grapevine, TX yesterday, or any number of other such incidents). And no, it's not "obvious" that treatment will be coerced. What is obvious is that clinical depression should be a disqualifier from buying a firearm.

Frankly, my dear, I don't....well, maybe you know the line, maybe you don't. You're snide, smug, and condescending. My first response to you was quite civil --here it is again:

While I agree that such political comments are inappropriate in a CHL class I also realize that people are apt to make such comments when they believe they are addressing a friendly audience --and I suspect there aren't too many gun toting Obama supporters: that's sort of like being an anti-abortion feminist. If you voted for Obama, and are an Obama supporter, you voted for, and support and administration that wants to take away your right to own guns and your right to defend yourself, as well as other Constitutional rights. The Gun Walker program was INTENDED to covertly undermine 2nd Amendment rights and he nominated an anti-gun zealot to head the BATF --no doubt to implement policies via the BATF that he cannot pass through Congress.

Fortunately we haven't yet reached the point where a president can simply do whatever he wants --because if Obama could do whatever he wanted your guns would already be gone and you'd be subject to prosecution for self-defense --like people in the UK. If that's what you want vote for Obama again and help the gun grabbers seat more anti-gun judges on the Federal bench, perhaps get another anti-gun judge on the SC to reverse the recent 2nd Amendment victory, and enable more covert anti-gun policies. But if you're that anxious to get rid of your guns, why wait? I'm sure some of us here on this board will be willing to take them off yours hands.

You followed up with this post....your snide and condescending remarks excerpted:

VM, let's get out of our preconceived notions about what people are supposed to be like based on one or two of their characteristics. Labels are simple and easy, I understand the allure, but they're also simplistic and the assumptions that go with them are often wrong. Even many of the people who you would consider gun-grabbing liberals own guns and aren't anti-gun at all, just simply favor some common sense gun regulations (such as closing the gun show loophole), and oppose some of the totalitarian craziness coming out of the NRA (like their opposition to closing the gun show loophole). And let's not forget that the current system does not protect against mentally ill people legally purchasing firearms. You can be mad as a hatter (Jared Loughner, anyone?), and still walk into any gunstore and purchase a firearm. Some common sense reforms are not EVIL LIBERALS STEALING MY GUNS!!! Calm down. All this talk about the president wanting your guns has no basis in reality. It's all based on what you think he may do, not anything he's done in his first 3 years as president. Tell you what, instead of reflexively going on about how the president wants my guns, why don't you tell me a specific action he has taken as president to take my guns... Patiently waiting.

You come on here touting your self-proclaimed superiority by suggesting my statements are "preconceived notions" that I find "alluring" because of my "simplistic" and "wrong" assumptions (your smug condescending comments are in red). You spout Brady Bunch propaganda (blue) and use hyperbolic rhetoric when it suits you (green) while telling me that I'm "reflexively going on" about things, and then smugly tell me to "calm down." You talk about "common sense" solutions, and when asked for some, tell us that it's too complicated for you, and you'll just leave it up to "experts."

I've seen the exact same style/tactic used on numerous boards by other big government liberals. If you think you're going to be smug and condescending and I'm going to be nice in response, you're sadly mistaken. In addition to your tone, your statements are full of straw men, another typical liberal "debating" tactic. For instance, your contention that someone who owns a gun can't be "anti-gun" and your request for specific actions Obama has taken "as president" to take your guns. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

[SwimFan85]

Thomas, what's your point? I just followed where the posts led. Don't forget, it takes 2 (or in this case, upwards of 6 to tango). Also, sanctimony doesn't look good on anyone.

It looks like he caught a boatload.