How much of a hassle to fly with a firearm? ***UPDATE***

[jimlongley]

Would it do any good to show them your CHL? Just a thought..

Jim

Nope.

[Jim101]

OK, does the ammo have to be in a locked box?

Jim

[jimlongley]

OK, does the ammo have to be in a locked box?

Jim

Good question:

No, but it's not too bad of an idea. And it can be in the same box as the gun.

Every year at the start of Dove Season, and again at the start of Duck and Goose season we see LOTS of ammo come through in the most disreputable shape. I swear we had one guy come through who had been carrying the same 20 gauge shells for what seemed to be many seasons, loose in his bag, with spilled junk food, mud, crud, blood, and unidentifiable stuff. Just about all of his ammo was in a condition where I wouldn't load it in my gun, even if it was shootable, it was all just too dirty.

Chatting with the guy, while gathering up and "allowing" him to "voluntarily surrender" that which was not in boxes or wouldn't fit in the boxes that he had, I found out that he had never hunted where he was going this particular time, he had always driven to where he hunted and he just threw this bag in the back of the pickup on the way to the hunt.

We also had a guy come through with Tupperware containers full of ammo, but the ammo was loose in each.

And we had had ziploc bags of ammo come through.

It is against regs to transport ammo in baggage if it is not in a suitable ammo container. We have had many long debates (along with multiple lessons about the difference between clips and magazines) about just what constitutes "suitable." The consensus is that ammo should be carried in containers that prevent the ammo from drifting around loose, the point being to keep the primers from making contact with something that could cause them to go off. Now before anyone points out to me the unlikelyhood that that might occur, it's merely unlikely, not impossible, and I also know that the cartridge must be confined in a chamber for the projectile to develop significan velocity, but it can start a fire.

I have seen a plain cardboard box stuffed with ammo neatly stacked be declared good. I have also seen a bandolier of shotgun shells wrapped tightly and stuffed in a box be okayed. I still wouldn't recommend either.

Also, some airlines enforce weight limits for the amount of ammo you are allowed to check, and this varies from one to the next.

TSA used to enforce a weight limit on ammo until someone wrote to the higher-ups that there was no such Federal regulation. This someone had been arguing with local people for a while and couldn't make any progress so he decided to jump the chain of command and it apparantly worked.

SO, we come back to the same old recommendation:

Check before you go, check when you get there, and stick with your guns if you can. Document, document, document, all of the regulations and rules about checking firearms and ammunition are readily available on the 'net. so print copies up before you leave and try to stay right in the center of anything that is even slightly subject to interpretation.

I am working on a "comprehensive" list of recommendations that we could make a sticky, but I have to keep reiterating that these are my own observatioons, interpretations, and personal advice and they may not apply at any particular airport. A case in point is the NY metropolitan airports where the ticket agents routinely refer anyone checking a firearm to the NYC or NY Transit Police, who will enfore the law the way they see fit whether or not there is a Federal pre-emption.

Something on the order of Caveat Emptor, like maybe Caveat reader would apply.

[Jim101]

Thanks, I'm going to use one of those cheap plastic ammo boxes with the little "boxes" that each shell sits in...........

Jim

[anygunanywhere]

I use a Pelican case each for my handguns and ammo. The Handgun cse will hold two commander size 1911's. The ammo case will hold four clips and two boxes of ammo. The boxes are lockable, of course, and really sturdy. Measure your weapons and ammo, order up the boxes. I order mine from a place online - cases4less.com.

[stevie_d_64]

Jim,

Your observations and interpretations in my opinion are going to be at least the most definitive "guide" to follow in the future...

I'm not blowin' smoke or shining you on...I consider information and observations from folks like you, to be extremely useful...And practical, for lack of a better term...

As far as the ammo container issue...

I've flown with the ammo in those semi-transparent plastic reloader containers that have the individual round contained in its own individual chamber...It just looks more professional...

I usually have the firearm already in slide lock, with a zip-tie through the mag well and through the ejection port...Zipped tight...I keep a few extra zip ties in the case just in case someone wants to try to play with it while "inspecting" it...

You just don't know how well you can grease through the process when you do everything you can to render the firearm as un-usable as you can while traveling like this...At least thats my mindset...

The magazines are kept empty while in transit...

I bought one of those nice mil-spec cases, thats watertight and flame orange (those military colors scream GUN in my opinion), they will probably think its test equipment or some other boring stuff...I found this one at a gunshow, and the company that makes them is in San Antonio...So I enjoyed spending my money on a Texas company anyway...

But that case is small enough to fit inside most of my checked baggage I use...So it generally does not get seen by baggage handlers...

I just can't think of any other way to improve on this system...But I am alway open to new ideas...

[Jim101]

I really like the idea of the zip ties, never thought of that.....Once we get a checklist of everything, it should be a stickey for reference.....And a couple of pictures would be good also.......Am I getting carried away?

Jim

[stevie_d_64]

I really like the idea of the zip ties, never thought of that.....Once we get a checklist of everything, it should be a stickey for reference.....And a couple of pictures would be good also.......Am I getting carried away?

Jim

Absolutely not...

The case I have, I bought a "lid organizer" for it, that I can slip documents and printouts for retrieval and review...Keep them nice and neat...Remember professional...

If you want "carried away"...I have some of those sheets (in a full size folder) laminated, because I use them a lot...

I'm not doing that so I can mess with the TSA or other security personel, I do it to let them know right off, I have done my homework, I do my best to become a student of the system and learn and retain as much info as I can, so they know I am not going to be someone they can take for a ride without some sort of rebuttal...

Its been a learning process, and most times I get through without any flack...

The whole zip-tie thing came from an idea I had when I went to a gun show once...

Apparently it has been determined to be as good as a trigger lock in keeping someone from immediately being able to render the gun usable without causing a scene...

I did one time have a guy take the firearm and by racking the slide intentionally breaking the ziptie by doing that, and thus incurring the wrath of Steve, to which brought forth a cadre of security folks around us...

He explained that he wanted to make sure it was a working gun, and that it was unloaded...

[insert your rolling eyes here]

Anyway...I always think there is something new to learn and apply to your life; in this case firearms...And how to travel with them...

If for no other reason than traveling with one, even if you don't intend on doing anything with it but leave it secured in your room while on that trip...Take it with you...

Thats almost the biggest point I ever wanted to make with this issue when I posted the original comment...I hope most will see that point...

[jimlongley]

Another good point. Recently we had a guy come through with a gun in his suitcase, with a cable lock through the mag well and slide, they made him go buy a box with a lock and he missed his flight.

There's a little more to that story that's kind of funny and I'll post it some other time, but the lesson learned is that the gun must be in a hard sided locked case (which could be a suitcase) and just having a lock through it, which I would have said was good enough, is not within that definition.

You don't need to go to the extent of using zip ties, although it's not really a bad idea, but I would lock the action open or swing the cylinder out.

[Jim101]

I have been looking for a reason to buy one of these, thought it would be good for the car also, a good place to leave it while at work. Have you seen these?

http://www.center-of-mass.com/

Jim..

[stevie_d_64]

Another good point. Recently we had a guy come through with a gun in his suitcase, with a cable lock through the mag well and slide, they made him go buy a box with a lock and he missed his flight.

You know that always tend to make me wonder about the whole "hard-sided box" issue...But it does make practical sense...

I always thought I could pack more clothes or other stuff on a trip than have to have 25% of my bag filled with that hard-sided case...

But then I can get away with it by packing a carry-on with at least one change of clothes, allowable toiletries and other stuff, just in case...No big deal...

As far as the zipties go, I tended to believe that those are more of a show of intent, than practical...Leaving Houston is not the big deal, its when I am coming back from places that tend to be squeamish at the mear sight of a gun, I want the first glance to be one of "Oh, you have it locked back and tied off, good..." look...

You know what I mean...

That TSA guy who racked the slide to break the ziptie...Really screwed up the extraction part of the cycle somehow...I'm not an armorer, but I had to have some work done on that thing to get it back to working correctly...That was late last year...The bill to fix it wasn't that much...I'm pretty much letting that go though...

Imagine if I had had a cable lock through the pistol...Drop the slide and see if you want to risk screwing something up that way...

BTW, since I volunteered you to write up some comments on your experiences, the least I can do is help you form it all up and type some of it in so it can be posted...I'll be glad to get with you and help out if you like...Just let me know...

[stevie_d_64]

I have been looking for a reason to buy one of these, thought it would be good for the car also, a good place to leave it while at work. Have you seen these?

http://www.center-of-mass.com/

Jim..

Buy two of them like I did...

The only thing I did when I secured them to the vehicles was that I drilled a better hole for the cable (then using that "slot" they cut for you) and secured that end with a larger nut and bolt...

The padding is adequate to protect finishes and keep it from sliding around inside the safe...Not a problem there...

I also recommend not putting too much stuff in it...It will not close properly, thus the safe may be easier to get a wedge in there and get it opened...But like they say...This thing will only slow them down...

But its better than nothing...

[Jim101]

Steve,

Is there a dealer in Tx. that has them or is it Internet only..I'm just going to use it for a .380...

Jim

[jimlongley]

Another good point. Recently we had a guy come through with a gun in his suitcase, with a cable lock through the mag well and slide, they made him go buy a box with a lock and he missed his flight.

BTW, since I volunteered you to write up some comments on your experiences, the least I can do is help you form it all up and type some of it in so it can be posted...I'll be glad to get with you and help out if you like...Just let me know...

With my wacky work schedule it's going to take me a few days to put things together in a sensible manner, but I'm happy to do it.

[jimlongley]

I guess this is as good a place to put "THE REST OF THE STORY" as Paul Harvey would put it.

This guy came into the airport and had his gun, secured with a cable lock, in his soft sided bag.

The ticket agent "didn't notice" that the gun wasn't in a locked hard sided container and let it go on to screening.

The screener running the x-ray, very sharp eyed and vigilant, noticed the cable lock, but didn't see a box around the gun and notified the proper chain of command.

Opening the bag verified that the gun was indeed not in a box, it was "loose" (actually in a gun rug) with a cable lock through the mag well and ejection port.

The passenger was called back from where he was about to board the plane, along with an airline representative to show what had been done wrong, and the passenger was told, by the airline, that he would either have to leave the gun behind (in his car, with a friend, sell it to someone in the airport (not really that latter)) or get a suitable box.

The airline rep agreed to schedule our luckless hero for a later flight while he took a taxi to a store nearby to buy a suitable box.

The taxi took the poor guy to several big box department stores (Target, etc.) nearby, only to find, at each, that they didn't have much in the way of suitable boxes.

They finally found one, at a cost of $35.00 and the taxi cost $45.00 plus a tip.

The taxi driver DID NOT deserve the tip, because the DFW Gun Range http://www.dfwgun.com/ was not far away and would have accomodated any box needed for almost any gun, up to Ma Deuce (which we have seen one of BTW, well a semi-auto version anyway - now there was a heavy bag.)