Concealed Carry Question

[j3x]

What's yall's opinion on CHL carry at a High School Sporting event held at a City(goverment) Park? Legal or Off-Limits?

[CaptWoodrow10]

Off limits:

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly
possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

That's how I read it, but I am not a lawyer.

[j3x]

Off limits:

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly
possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

That's how I read it, but I am not a lawyer.

Not that I disagree with you opinion, BUT what if other Non-School related activities or going on in adjacent areas of the City Owned park? Say for example someone with a CHL who goes to the park for a jog or to walk his dog and doesnt even know a school event is taking place?

[CaptWoodrow10]

So that's the gray area you were alluding to. I'm afraid that's above my pay grade, but I think it may depend on if you were attending the event or were just wandering through the park on your normal Saturday stroll. Of course you may beat the rap, but you will probably still take the ride. Discretion of the officer ect.

[RPB]

If I went to a city park where I can carry and 2 teams playing baseball over there on the ball field, how am I to know if they are school teams or little league or just random kids or 2 church groups? I'd assume school teams would be on school fields instead of city parks, must be church groups or something else.

If you know it's a forbidden school sporting event, I'd say you can't carry even though you normally could at that park.
Similar to, but not exactly, you may carry in government buildings and ignore unenforceable 30.06 signs, but not when a political meeting is in session and the same sign becomes enforceable, whether you know a meeting is occurring or not the sign changes "characteristics" becoming enforceable probably. ("intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly")

How far the "grounds" extend from the ball field, I don't know if that's the entire city park, the stadium and it's seating area, or just what.

That's my layman's guess.

[92f-fan]

Im just amused by the Title of the thread....

Isnt it safe to say MOST of the threads here are " Concealed Carry Questions " ?

[pcgizzmo]

Personally I wouldn't do it. Even if you "legally" could make it work it's not worth the hassle if somehow you printed etc.. and someone made you and then you had to deal with the law. My guess is you would be arrested either way and they would have to go to court. Not worth it IMO.

[jamisjockey]

Off limits:

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly
possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

That's how I read it, but I am not a lawyer.

Not that I disagree with you opinion, BUT what if other Non-School related activities or going on in adjacent areas of the City Owned park? Say for example someone with a CHL who goes to the park for a jog or to walk his dog and doesnt even know a school event is taking place?

TPC doesn't make any distinctions about if you know that there is a school event.
(IMHO, all the school bull honkey needs to be written out of the CHL laws.)
It boils down to a whole lotta things happening for you to even get caught carrying at some kind of event, and then it takes a certain kind of cop and DA to press charges. Sooner or later, someone will get put to the test over some of the grey areas in the CHL laws.

[RPB]

intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly

Though I'm unclear how mens rea applies if you didn't know, but were reckless unless it places a duty upon you to learn who the ball teams are even though you went to jog or swim.

[rm9792]

I think RPB cleared it up pretty well. The rules arent absolute in the sense that you are here, you are guilty. You are walking your dog or eating lunch and you have no idea a school is there which is covered by knowingly. I take recklessly to mean waving it around or even firing it off (for whatever reason).
This thread is similar to the McDonalds thread. School is taking the kids to lunch so do you have to leave, I doubt it.

[pcgizzmo]

I think RPB cleared it up pretty well. The rules arent absolute in the sense that you are here, you are guilty. You are walking your dog or eating lunch and you have no idea a school is there which is covered by knowingly. I take recklessly to mean waving it around or even firing it off (for whatever reason).
This thread is similar to the McDonalds thread. School is taking the kids to lunch so do you have to leave, I doubt it.

In the OP's instance though he is specifically talking about attending a school sponsored event. He's going to directly to it and not walking his dog etc.....

any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted[

To me the above words preclude him from carrying there if he knows its a school sponsored event and he is going there for the sole purpose of attending that event.

[RPB]

I think RPB cleared it up pretty well. The rules arent absolute in the sense that you are here, you are guilty. You are walking your dog or eating lunch and you have no idea a school is there which is covered by knowingly. I take recklessly to mean waving it around or even firing it off (for whatever reason).
This thread is similar to the McDonalds thread. School is taking the kids to lunch so do you have to leave, I doubt it.

In the OP's instance though he is specifically talking about attending a school sponsored event. He's going to directly to it and not walking his dog etc.....

any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted[

To me the above words preclude him from carrying there if he knows its a school sponsored event and he is going there for the sole purpose of attending that event.

if you know that's what it is, and that's what you intend to go to .... then you better not carry, in my layman's opinion.

[srothstein]

I think there might be something else to consider. Charles has already posted that he thinks the section referenced (grounds where a school sponsored event is taking place) only is meant to apply to school owned grounds. I cannot find any reasonable grounds to disagree with him and give in to his legal training and knowledge.

But, the OP referred to a high school sporting event. This is slightly different and the premises where this is taking place are off limits. This does invoke the definition of premises as the building, so if it is in one building in a park, other buildings are not affected. I also note that I don't think Charles argument about it only applying to school owned property would hold here. Since it is included with other sporting events that take place in various facilities owned or operated by others, I think it would make the city park building off-limits. But since it only applies to the one building, the rest of the park would not be off limits at the same time.

[CaptWoodrow10]

I think there might be something else to consider. Charles has already posted that he thinks the section referenced (grounds where a school sponsored event is taking place) only is meant to apply to school owned grounds. I cannot find any reasonable grounds to disagree with him and give in to his legal training and knowledge.

But, the OP referred to a high school sporting event. This is slightly different and the premises where this is taking place are off limits. This does invoke the definition of premises as the building, so if it is in one building in a park, other buildings are not affected. I also note that I don't think Charles argument about it only applying to school owned property would hold here. Since it is included with other sporting events that take place in various facilities owned or operated by others, I think it would make the city park building off-limits. But since it only applies to the one building, the rest of the park would not be off limits at the same time.

I follow your reasoning, however I think the lines can be blurred in this situation. The example that came to mind when I first read the OP was that of a tennis match. I've never seen a tennis match being held indoors, or even under a pavilion type structure. This is the type of scenario that could, in my opinion, cause the most grief. The definition of "premises" is crucial here. Case law is needed, and I do not know of any. Of course, I am always willing to learn from those more knowledgeable.

[jamisjockey]

I think there might be something else to consider. Charles has already posted that he thinks the section referenced (grounds where a school sponsored event is taking place) only is meant to apply to school owned grounds. I cannot find any reasonable grounds to disagree with him and give in to his legal training and knowledge.

But, the OP referred to a high school sporting event. This is slightly different and the premises where this is taking place are off limits. This does invoke the definition of premises as the building, so if it is in one building in a park, other buildings are not affected. I also note that I don't think Charles argument about it only applying to school owned property would hold here. Since it is included with other sporting events that take place in various facilities owned or operated by others, I think it would make the city park building off-limits. But since it only applies to the one building, the rest of the park would not be off limits at the same time.

I follow your reasoning, however I think the lines can be blurred in this situation. The example that came to mind when I first read the OP was that of a tennis match. I've never seen a tennis match being held indoors, or even under a pavilion type structure. This is the type of scenario that could, in my opinion, cause the most grief. The definition of "premises" is crucial here. Case law is needed, and I do not know of any. Of course, I am always willing to learn from those more knowledgeable.

I disagree. We don't need caselaw. We need all of this school and sports stuff removed from CHL law.