Required Presentation of CHL when NOT Carrying?

[RicosRevenge]

Guys, first post and yes, I did try to search and finally got frustrated and registered... I have had my CHL for a few years now but I had an incident a few nights ago with a Grapevine Police officer that had me scratching my head.

I had gone out to meet some friends and knew I would be having a couple beers so I left my CCW and CHL at home and did my customary routine of placing my DL and Credit Card in my front pocket and headed out. We had a few Coors LIghts (I was in no way inebriated) and I headed home which was literally 2 blocks away. At some point I picked up the GV officer and as I got out of my truck in my driveway he lit me up and demanded that I get back in my truck.

Long story short, he said I hadn't stopped long enough at a Stop sign. To make matters worse, I hadn't printed off my new Insurance Card but the officer was nice enough to look it up.

The guy was great, I wasn't thirilled about the flashing lights in my neighborhood at 3 AM; but heck a "safety stop" ain't necessarily a bad thing...

The crux of the story is that he asked me if I had a CHL - I said, "Yes, but I'm not carrying." He told me that it was a Felony Arrestable Offense to not present my CHL upon request even if I was not carrying. I told him I believed that was incorrect; but obviously in the situation I was in; I wasn't going to push my luck since he was just giving me a warning.

I pulled up the latest regs online and P# 26 of the Texas Concealed Handgun Laws section GC §411.205. entitled Requirement To Display License states that

If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

I read this as I do not have to supply my CHL or even have it on my person if I do not have my weapon. Have I missed something? Is there another statute I scanned by?

Thanks a bunch!

[Beiruty]

By law:
1) You should present both your DL and your CHL, while carrying requested by LEO.
2) The law has been amended as there is no more penalty for failure to do 1).
3) You still have to do 1).

[TxKimberMan]

I'm scratching my head at this one as well

The penalty for not showing your CHL was removed, and prior to that it was not a felony...someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.

I have no idea what the Grapevine officer was referencing if he said that.

[RicosRevenge]

By law:
1) You should present both your DL and your CHL, carrying or otherwise when requested by LEO.
2) The law has been amended as there is no more penalty for failure to do 1).
3) You still have to do 1).

Great, please show me where that law is so I know.

[TxKimberMan]

By law:
1) You should present both your DL and your CHL, carrying or otherwise when requested by LEO.
2) The law has been amended as there is no more penalty for failure to do 1).
3) You still have to do 1).

Great, please show me where that law is so I know.

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license
holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's
person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license
holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license
holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the
department and the license holder's handgun license.

I see no requirement to display your CHL if you're not carrying.

[Keith B]

By law:
1) You should present both your DL and your CHL, carrying or otherwise when requested by LEO.
2) The law has been amended as there is no more penalty for failure to do 1).
3) You still have to do 1).

Incorrect on number 1. You only have to present your CHL when asked for ID if you are carrying. Not required if not carrying. However, I feel it is a good idea to go ahead and present it and advise you are not carrying since they will see the CHL status when they run your license and come back to ask. Better to be up front about it and put them at ease IMO.

EDIT TO ADD: And, it is correct that there is no longer a penalty for not displaying it. And it never was a felony, just a potential suspension of your CHL.

[RPBrown]

By law:
1) You should present both your DL and your CHL, carrying or otherwise when requested by LEO.
2) The law has been amended as there is no more penalty for failure to do 1).
3) You still have to do 1).

EDIT TO ADD: And, it is correct that there is no longer a penalty for not displaying it. And it never was a felony, just a potential suspension of your CHL.

Incorrect on number 1. You only have to present your CHL when asked for ID if you are carrying. Not required if not carrying. However, I feel it is a good idea to go ahead and present it and advise you are not carrying since they will see the CHL status when they run your license and come back to ask. Better to be up front about it and put them at ease IMO.

. I have had my CHL since 95 and as I recall, it has always been to present if carrying was the law. It was never a felony but could be grounds for suspension of your CHL.
I do believe that now it is not even grounds for suspension, but it is always a goodidea to show it anyway and inform the LEO if not carrying.

[Beiruty]

By law:
1) You should present both your DL and your CHL while carrying when requested by LEO.
2) The law has been amended as there is no more penalty for failure to do 1).
3) You still have to do 1).

Great, please show me where that law is so I know.

Edited for correctness.

[Keith B]

By law:
1) You MUST present both your DL and your CHL while carrying when requested by LEO.
2) The law has been amended as there is no more penalty for failure to do 1).
3) You still have to do 1).

Great, please show me where that law is so I know.

Edited for correctness.

Actually better, but still not 100%. To be nit-picky, see my correction above.

[RoyGBiv]

"hadn't stopped long enough"....??? Is there a minimum time required?
So... he was obviously fabricating a reason to pull you over, after he saw you coming out of the bar..
Then he adds insult to injury by being wrong about the law and trying to scare you with the threat of a felony arrest and violation of your 4th amendment rights.

As has been suggested in several similar threads, you might write a letter to his chief explaining that you were stopped by one of his officers (no names, so the Chief might be inclined to refresh everyone, not just one officer) and the officer incorrectly told you that you had committed a felony by not presenting your CHL when not carrying.... IMO, YMMV.

Edit: If the bar/restaurant is only 2 blocks away, maybe walking is better next time..?

[Beiruty]

see latest copy of CHL laws: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... mphlet.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

same section: 411.205.

[WildBill]

I'm scratching my head at this one as well

The penalty for not showing your CHL was removed, and prior to that it was not a felony...someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.

I have no idea what the Grapevine officer was referencing if he said that.

If he said that, his statement was not correct. Just because it's not true doesn't prevent him from stating it.

[tacticool]

The crux of the story is that he asked me if I had a CHL - I said, "Yes, but I'm not carrying." He told me that it was a Felony Arrestable Offense to not present my CHL upon request even if I was not carrying. I told him I believed that was incorrect; but obviously in the situation I was in; I wasn't going to push my luck since he was just giving me a warning.

He's felony stupid. You did right not to argue with a MWAG who is felony stupid.

[RicosRevenge]

RoyGBiv, I guess there is... I'll try the old touch football routine next time... ONE mississippi, TWO mississippi...

I thought about the letter thing or even contacting him directly; but I just don't think it would be worth it. I would rather be taken in on a bull charge I know will be taken care of REAL quick than be labeled as a trouble maker in our small community and have a target on my truck.

We have a quiet neighborhood where people forget to lock their doors or close their garage and its no big deal. I'm actually happy that the GV police are taking an interest in keeping it that way.

As for walking from two blocks... my initial post may have been mis-leading. I was actually DD that night and didn't pop the coldies until I got back to my buddies house... two blocks away...

[hirundo82]

Aside: is Grapevine PD unusually badly educated about CHL law? We seem to discuss them a lot around these parts.

Failure to present CHL has never been a felony. There is no penalty for failure to present since last legislative session, but even before that a first offense was 90 day suspension of your CHL, and the second offense was a Class B misdemeanor.

Prior to the 81st Legislative Session, the relevant section read:

Sec. 411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY.

(a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section 411.187.

(b) A person commits an offense if the person fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by Subsection (a) after previously having had the person's license suspended for a violation of that subsection. An offense under this subsection is a Class B misdemeanor.