informing a threat

[jmgroves]

Is it legal to inform someone who is threatening you that you are armed? I had a close call downtown not long ago when I was approached in a dark parking lot by a transient asking for money. He started arguing with me and I thought it could become serious. He finally left me alone, but I started thinking about the legality of informing someone that you are armed.

[Beiruty]

It could be legal, but not wise. Shouting: "Back off and don't get close!" will do the trick most of the time. Calling 911 will work too.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

I do not know if it is legal or not but I am not sure I would do so. It could work to your advantage and get the thug to leave you alone. It could also go against you and incite the thug to attack you before you can draw your weapon.

I cannot think of too many scenarios that would make me say back off I am armed but not feel that I needed to draw. I am sure that there are some out there but IMO if you feel that you need to inform them that you have your weapon its either time to get out of there or draw.

[glocklvr]

if you feel that you need to inform them that you have your weapon its either time to get out of there or draw.

The only way I am going to inform a threat that I have a gun is if the situation requires me to draw and at that point I am sure that the business end of that 40 cal glock will say more than enough but no one needs to know about my gun unless they force me to use it.

[Medic218]

I agree with both previous post

[rmr1923]

I agree with both previous post

same here... if you feel that you need to tell a threat that you're armed (as an act to deter them from coming closer), it's time to draw and THEN give a verbal warning. my first instinct would be to try to just get out of there with as little incident as possible, but if i felt cornered or otherwise unable to escape safely, i'd rather draw first and then give them a verbal warning to back off and let me leave. my first assumption in this situation is that they are possibly armed too, if you just tell them you're armed and don't draw, how do you know they won't draw on you first? sure you've practiced drawing your weapon at home several times, but when faced with a real-life threatening situation, are you SURE you can get your gun out quicker than they can?

[rmr1923]

Is it legal to inform someone who is threatening you that you are armed? I had a close call downtown not long ago when I was approached in a dark parking lot by a transient asking for money. He started arguing with me and I thought it could become serious. He finally left me alone, but I started thinking about the legality of informing someone that you are armed.

just out of curiosity, where do you live?

[Excaliber]

I agree with both previous post

same here... if you feel that you need to tell a threat that you're armed (as an act to deter them from coming closer), it's time to draw and THEN give a verbal warning. my first instinct would be to try to just get out of there with as little incident as possible, but if i felt cornered or otherwise unable to escape safely, i'd rather draw first and then give them a verbal warning to back off and let me leave. my first assumption in this situation is that they are possibly armed too, if you just tell them you're armed and don't draw, how do you know they won't draw on you first? sure you've practiced drawing your weapon at home several times, but when faced with a real-life threatening situation, are you SURE you can get your gun out quicker than they can?

Because action is faster than reaction, he who starts the draw first wins - just about every time, unless he fumbles.

Even if he ends up being a fraction of a second behind you, you end up with an effective tie - not a desirable circumstance in an armed confrontation. With both of you either pointing guns at each other or firing them at each other, the plan for extricating yourself with no more holes in your personal real estate than you started with might be - what?

[ELB]

My reasoning against telling a threat I am armed as a deterrence step is basically the same as against open carrying (i.e. proving that I am armed) as a tactical choice. (Note: I think OC should be legal. I just would not generally choose to do so). The reasoning is thus:

While {saying I am armed|open carrying} would probably discourage many, and quite likely most, of your average lower-level thugs, I think there is a class of truly dangerous thugs who, if anything, would be more motivated to attack me or just shoot me right off the bat. And it is against those guys that I want and need the element of surprise, so I am not going to give it up by {telling them|open carrying}.

[baldeagle]

I have no problem informing someone that I'm armed - after I have drawn the weapon and am pointing it at him. The law allows you to draw your weapon when force (not deadly force) is justified. So, if you're in a situation that is hairy enough that you might have to shoot someone, you can draw your weapon and then order them to back off or you will shoot. But you'd better make darn sure that doing so is justified before doing it.

In the scenario you describe, it sounds like the guy was persistent, but persistence doesn't justify the use of force. If you were trying to get away from him and he kept coming at you, then you might be able to justify drawing if you honestly felt threatened.

[MasterOfNone]

PC 9.04 states that a threat of deadly force by producing a weapon is not considered deadly force - it's just force. So if you were justified in using force (if he had grabbed you), you could threaten him with the gun. However, in PC 9.31:

(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;

The questions is, though, is his threat considered force against you?

[GhostTX]

IMO, the only time they should know you're armed is when they're seeing the weapon, as described by the above posts of perceived force and deadly force.

I'm not gonna show my cards if I don't have to.

[Excaliber]

PC 9.04 states that a threat of deadly force by producing a weapon is not considered deadly force - it's just force. So if you were justified in using force (if he had grabbed you), you could threaten him with the gun. However, in PC 9.31:

(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;

The questions is, though, is his threat considered force against you?

Provocation and threat are not the same thing.

Cursing would fall into provocation.

Statement of an intent to do harm is a threat.

The former is not justification for use of force.

The latter may be, depending on the surrounding circumstances relating to ability and jeopardy.

[VoiceofReason]

I agree with both previous post

same here... if you feel that you need to tell a threat that you're armed (as an act to deter them from coming closer), it's time to draw and THEN give a verbal warning. my first instinct would be to try to just get out of there with as little incident as possible, but if i felt cornered or otherwise unable to escape safely, i'd rather draw first and then give them a verbal warning to back off and let me leave. my first assumption in this situation is that they are possibly armed too, if you just tell them you're armed and don't draw, how do you know they won't draw on you first? sure you've practiced drawing your weapon at home several times, but when faced with a real-life threatening situation, are you SURE you can get your gun out quicker than they can?

Because action is faster than reaction, he who starts the draw first wins - just about every time, unless he fumbles.

Even if he ends up being a fraction of a second behind you, you end up with an effective tie - not a desirable circumstance in an armed confrontation. With both of you either pointing guns at each other or firing them at each other, the plan for extricating yourself with no more holes in your personal real estate than you started with might be - what?

Answer to your question-yes.

45 HYDRA-SHOK, close range, only need a fraction of a second advantage.

Practice!

When I was in law enforcement a partner told me "If you are going to carry a gun, be able to get it out of the holster and hit with it. The worst thing in the world to do would be to get stabbed to death with your gun still in the holster."

[Excaliber]

I agree with both previous post

same here... if you feel that you need to tell a threat that you're armed (as an act to deter them from coming closer), it's time to draw and THEN give a verbal warning. my first instinct would be to try to just get out of there with as little incident as possible, but if i felt cornered or otherwise unable to escape safely, i'd rather draw first and then give them a verbal warning to back off and let me leave. my first assumption in this situation is that they are possibly armed too, if you just tell them you're armed and don't draw, how do you know they won't draw on you first? sure you've practiced drawing your weapon at home several times, but when faced with a real-life threatening situation, are you SURE you can get your gun out quicker than they can?

Because action is faster than reaction, he who starts the draw first wins - just about every time, unless he fumbles.

Even if he ends up being a fraction of a second behind you, you end up with an effective tie - not a desirable circumstance in an armed confrontation. With both of you either pointing guns at each other or firing them at each other, the plan for extricating yourself with no more holes in your personal real estate than you started with might be - what?

Answer to your question-yes.

45 HYDRA-SHOK, close range, only need a fraction of a second advantage.

Practice!

When I was in law enforcement a partner told me "If you are going to carry a gun, be able to get it out of the holster and hit with it. The worst thing in the world to do would be to get stabbed to death with your gun still in the holster."

A fraction of a second advantage may very well allow you to get a shot off first, but if your opponent gets one off a fraction of a second later, you've still got an effective tie - both of you have shot each other. I don't put those situations in the "win" column.

An unannounced surprise draw that results in the BG facing a fully drawn and ready weapon with his still inside his waistband would put you in a far stronger and less painful position.