School event parking lot question

[gdanaher]

I've read the book, I've asked 2 CHL instructors, I've asked local police officers, and I've offered the question to the DPS who kindly deferred to the local police. There is no consistent answer. Here's my question: As I read the law, I can drive through a school parking lot and drop off my child. I can park and go in leaving the pistol in the car, concealed. If I go to a stadium for a UIL sanctioned sports event, I think I can do the same, leaving the gun in the car, concealed. Can anyone provide definitive information on this or cite a case? Some folks tell me that I will be arrested if a gun is found in the car, others say no, it is not inside the facility. I don't think there should be that much confusion about this, but obviously, there is. Please offer your thoughts.

[ScottDLS]

I've read the book, I've asked 2 CHL instructors, I've asked local police officers, and I've offered the question the the DPS who kindly deferred to the local police. There is no consistent answer. Here's my question: As I read the law, I can drive through a school parking lot and drop off my child. I can park and go in leaving the pistol in the car, concealed. If I go to a stadium for a UIL sanctioned sports event, I think I can do the same, leaving the gun in the car, concealed. Can anyone provide definitive information on this or cite a case? Some folks tell me that I will be arrested if a gun is found in the car, others say no, it is not inside the facility. I don't think there should be that much confusion about this, but obviously, there is. Please offer your thoughts.

The prohibition on carrying at an interscholastic event is contained in PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. I'm assuming you have a CHL, although under MPA you would be OK if you kept it in the car even if you didn't.

You are prohibited from carrying on the "premises" where the event is taking place and premises specifically excludes the parking lot, so you should be OK.

If you were on school "grounds" and the event were taking place in the parking lot, you may have an issue under 46.03, although that is not the situation you described.

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.
...
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority
of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of
whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's
person:
...
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional
sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless
the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used
in the event;
...
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk
or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

[Crossfire]

The confusion exists because Federal Gun Free School Zone Law says you cannot have a firearm within 1000 feet of the premises of a school. Fortunately, there is an exception for CHL holders who are licensed by the state in which the school zone is located. So, it does not apply to Texas CHL holders in Texas.

And, remember the definition of "premises" in Texas PC 46.03 is a building or portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
That is what gives you the ability to leave it in your car.

[longtooth]

[donniet]

gdanaher
I can tell you how my experience went. To make a long story short, I reported a vandalism incident while in a school parking lot, and ask to meet an officer there. I was standing at the patrol car as the officer was filing the report. The officer ask for my ID so I handed him my drivers license and CHL. The officer looked at the CHL and ask if I had my handgun on me. I replied it was in the console of my truck, parked behind the cruiser. The officer handed the CHL back and said "I don't really need this". That was the only comment he made. No sweat, no big deal. The next officer might take exception to the CHL, however, this one was cool with it. A positive experience.

Having the handgun with me was so natural, it was only later I realized the outcome could have been much different (with another officer) although I was within the law.

[Beiruty]

I drive daily and drop my daughter at school while carrying. As per CHL laws we are fine as long as we don't go into the buildings.

[frogbones]

I work @ a highschool. I did extensive reading and rereading of the law and what not.

Since I'm a CHL holder. I just leave the firearm in my car for the duration of my shift. I been working in the district for 4+yrs. Not one problem, even when they randomly bring dogs to sniff out any contraband that might be in people cars.

If the school I'm @ has a shindig in the parking lot, I just go to another school in district and work there, or from there.

I'm in IT, so remote access is my friend.

[JJVP]

[ I'm assuming you have a CHL, although under MPA you would be OK if you kept it in the car even if you didn't.

If you don't have a CHL carrying under MPA would not be OK. Federal law prohibits having a firearm within 1000' of a school. Only exception is if you have a concealed carry license issued by the state the school is in.

[ScottDLS]

[ I'm assuming you have a CHL, although under MPA you would be OK if you kept it in the car even if you didn't.

If you don't have a CHL carrying under MPA would not be OK. Federal law prohibits having a firearm within 1000' of a school. Only exception is if you have a concealed carry license issued by the state the school is in.

Well it WOULD be OK if OP's original question was about the UIL sponsored event, which is how I took it.

...If I go to a stadium for a UIL sanctioned sports event, I think I can do the same, leaving the gun in the car, concealed. Can anyone provide definitive information on this or cite a case?...

I'm assuming he's asking about "event" because it's mentioned in 46.035, not 46.03. This was meant to cover events on non-school property, so GFSZA is irrelevant. Also UIL is University Interscholastic League, so even it it was on "school" grounds it would be college/university...and GFSZA only covers Primary and Secondary Schools. So I stand by my answer, including carry under MPA, if we're talking UIL sponsored event.

[Winchster]

Also UIL is University Interscholastic League, so even it it was on "school" grounds it would be college/university...and GFSZA only covers Primary and Secondary Schools. So I stand by my answer, including carry under MPA, if we're talking UIL sponsored event.

Just to clear something up. A High School football game is a UIL event. So is One Act Play, and virtually every other extra curricular event at a high school.

As long as you leave the gun in the car, in the lot, you are fine. With a CHL. Without a CHL it is a different set of circumstances.

[ScottDLS]

Also UIL is University Interscholastic League, so even it it was on "school" grounds it would be college/university...and GFSZA only covers Primary and Secondary Schools. So I stand by my answer, including carry under MPA, if we're talking UIL sponsored event.

Just to clear something up. A High School football game is a UIL event. So is One Act Play, and virtually every other extra curricular event at a high school.

As long as you leave the gun in the car, in the lot, you are fine. With a CHL. Without a CHL it is a different set of circumstances.

Point taken. If event requires parking within 1000' of primary or secondary school, then GFSZA applies.

[gdanaher]

I'm the OP. The original question came up while chatting with a local police officer with some rank at a local high school football game. He was adamant that it didn't matter if I had a CHL or not (I do); if he had probable cause to believe I had a firearm in the vehicle he would relish the opportunity to arrest me on the spot. I explained my understanding of the law to him but his response was somewhat stereotypical--he knows about this, after all he is a professional. I appreciate the insight and comments provided above. I think I can act as my own jailhouse lawyer now should the need arise.

[ex_dsmr]

I'm the OP. The original question came up while chatting with a local police officer with some rank at a local high school football game. He was adamant that it didn't matter if I had a CHL or not (I do); if he had probable cause to believe I had a firearm in the vehicle he would relish the opportunity to arrest me on the spot. I explained my understanding of the law to him but his response was somewhat stereotypical--he knows about this, after all he is a professional. I appreciate the insight and comments provided above. I think I can act as my own jailhouse lawyer now should the need arise.

Law would prove his chest beating attitude wrong.

My decision to not divulge or discuss CC matters with others (especially LEO) defuses situations like you just described (id reslish in arresing you). My experience (years ago) with asking LEO about firearms laws has been that theyd rather tell you something wrong on the spot than admit to not knowing the exact law. Ive heard some swear up and down that hollowpoint ammo was downright illegal for anyone but LEO.

[CC Italian]

Well I am another CHL holder who works for a school district and I can tell you that it is NOT illegal to have a handgun in your car while in a school parking lot if you have a CHL. That’s not to say that if the school in question has munitions smelling dogs that you won't be detained immediately and arrested. They are so nervous about guns anywhere near a school these days that they would detain you first and ask questions later. They might not arrest you but in my school district you would definitely be detained until your CHL was verified.

Unfortunately I can't carry, it is in my contract that if I carry anywhere on school property I will be immediately terminated. It specifically addresses CHL holders! This includes the parking lot. Secondly, I don't think I would bring a gun to my work unless it was legal to carry it in the school. Every year several cars are broken into during school. I think it is a greater risk to leave it in the car and possibly fall into the hands of a student.

[geoelectro]

I do service calls at schools from time to time and I always lock my Glock in my vehicle in a small safe. My CHL instructor had mentioned that if you were picking up or dropping off someone at a school, having your weapon with you on the school property parking lot was not a problem. However, he also said that if you knew you were going to be there for an extended amount of time say for a meeting, that you should leave it at home. He said you wouldn't want someone breaking into your vehicle and stealing your weapon, possibly using it in a crime or worse...

That always bothers me when on school property but like I say, I lock it up and try to keep my visits as short as possible.

Geoelectro