Customer Outs Himself

[Purplehood]

So this guy did break the law?

-By 'Intentionally Exposing' his gun?
No. He did not actually 'expose' any handgun, so it would not be illegal under that section.
I can run into a bar and say "I've got my Gun! Do you?" even if I was completely unarmed.
How can you expose something you don't even have?

-By Potentially breaching the peace by shouting he had a gun?
Maybe, I don't know what the laws are on breaching the peace. If someone felt threatened, possibly. Perhaps one of the LEO's here can expound further here.

-By Carrying Intoxicated?
Possibly, depending on if he was intoxicated or not, and if he was actually carrying or not.
No one actually saw a gun, so we don't know if he was really carrying.

So it is legal to expose that you're carrying a gun?

This makes me think of when folks tried to get Bill Clinton to define his answers in the Lewinski scandal.

How do you "expose" that you are carrying a gun?

Do you mean show the gun? Do you mean, state that you have a gun?

Showing the gun is illegal.

Stating that you are carrying a gun is not defined as being illegal.
Stating that you are carrying a gun and threatening to do bodily harm with it is a crime (not sure which one), even if you aren't actually carrying.

Please recall that no mention of the subject of this thread showing a gun was ever made. The guy simply made a really stupid and really loud statement that he was carrying. No apparent threat accompanied the statement.

[sjfcontrol]

So it is legal to expose that you're carrying a gun?

He didn't "expose" it, he declared it. To expose something means to show it.

[dicion]

So it is legal to expose that you're carrying a gun?

This makes me think of when folks tried to get Bill Clinton to define his answers in the Lewinski scandal.

How do you "expose" that you are carrying a gun?

Do you mean show the gun? Do you mean, state that you have a gun?

Showing the gun is illegal.

Stating that you are carrying a gun is not defined as being illegal.
Stating that you are carrying a gun and threatening to do bodily harm with it is a crime (not sure which one), even if you aren't actually carrying.

Please recall that no mention of the subject of this thread showing a gun was ever made. The guy simply made a really stupid and really loud statement that he was carrying. No apparent threat accompanied the statement.

Indeed.

Also, keep in mind that the word 'expose' is not used in the actual statute:

(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

'fails to conceal the handgun'

That refers to the handgun itself, not 'fails to conceal the fact that he's carrying a handgun'

[Embalmo]

So it is legal to expose that you're carrying a gun?

He didn't "expose" it, he declared it. To expose something means to show it.

I saying "expose that you're carrying", not "expose the gun"; that is, exposing one's carry status. Like I said in my earlier post, I can think of lots of times where the conversation could and go to, "I've got a gun in my pocket right now," and "Wow, are you carrying right now?" in a private conversation where some some body's idiot brother-in-law visiting from San Francisco overhears and calls the police, saying, "HE SAID HE HAD A GUN!!"

I wouldn't trust LE to know the law if some moron called the police, so I'll keep my carry status private. I appreciate the info guys!!

Embalmo

[Hoi Polloi]

Here's what the statutes say concerning "concealed means concealed."

"Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

An ordinary person (not those specifically trained in firearms) using ordinary observation (not scrutiny) should not be able to discern that that's a gun you've got there. Ordinary printing is not illegal. Wearing a skin-tight leotard and tucking a very large handgun into the belly area might be, though, if the ordinary person walking by you would realize you have a gun there. Talking about it is not illegal. Pulling up your shirt to illustrate your point would be, though.

[Embalmo]

Here's what the statutes say concerning "concealed means concealed."

"Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

An ordinary person (not those specifically trained in firearms) using ordinary observation (not scrutiny) should not be able to discern that that's a gun you've got there. Ordinary printing is not illegal. Wearing a skin-tight leotard and tucking a very large handgun into the belly area might be, though, if the ordinary person walking by you would realize you have a gun there. Talking about it is not illegal. Pulling up your shirt to illustrate your point would be, though.

My brain is still working on whether it matters (to the law) if you visually show it through bicycle pants or you verbally show it in conversation. I wouldn't feel real confident if the cops came after some idiot called and told them that I told another that I had a gun in my pocket.

Embalmo

[dicion]

...some idiot called and told them that I told another that I had a gun in my pocket.

Must.. resist... obvious... joke...

[Purplehood]

Here's what the statutes say concerning "concealed means concealed."

"Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

An ordinary person (not those specifically trained in firearms) using ordinary observation (not scrutiny) should not be able to discern that that's a gun you've got there. Ordinary printing is not illegal. Wearing a skin-tight leotard and tucking a very large handgun into the belly area might be, though, if the ordinary person walking by you would realize you have a gun there. Talking about it is not illegal. Pulling up your shirt to illustrate your point would be, though.

My brain is still working on whether it matters (to the law) if you visually show it through bicycle pants or you verbally show it in conversation. I wouldn't feel real confident if the cops came after some idiot called and told them that I told another that I had a gun in my pocket.

Embalmo

Unfortunately you continue to confuse me with your terms.

"...verbally show it in conversation". Do you mean mention it, or show the actual weapon while talking? As Hoi Polloi stated, you can mention it. You cannot reveal it.

[Embalmo]

I'm using the phrase "Verbally show" to mean verbally indicating one's carry status as armed; to tell someone that there is a gun in your pocket. To raise ones shirt to reveal the gun shaped bulge in one's bicycle shorts would be to physically show.

I agree that it doesn't say anything in the book about telling someone in friendly conversation that you're armed (where others may hear you), but I do think that it's a little gray when you consider that bicycle pants and loose lips yield the same results; that you gotta' gun in your pants. And you've also, naturally, got to be careful in places where LEOs and shopkeepers may not get the concept of non-compliant signs.

Embalmo

[Embalmo]

...some idiot called and told them that I told another that I had a gun in my pocket.

Must.. resist... obvious... joke...

One of my favorite ways to sign my email with my gun friends is: There is indeed a gun in my pocket, but I am, however, also happy to see you.

Embalmo

[Hoi Polloi]

I'm using the phrase "Verbally show" to mean verbally indicating one's carry status as armed; to tell someone that there is a gun in your pocket. To raise ones shirt to reveal the gun shaped bulge in one's bicycle shorts would be to physically show.

I agree that it doesn't say anything in the book about telling someone in friendly conversation that you're armed (where others may hear you), but I do think that it's a little gray when you consider that bicycle pants and loose lips yield the same results; that you gotta' gun in your pants. And you've also, naturally, got to be careful in places where LEOs and shopkeepers may not get the concept of non-compliant signs.

Embalmo

While imprudent, it is not illegal. Is that what you mean by calling it a gray area? That you might be legally OK, but that it might not be worth the potential hassle, fallout, or fright to do so?

[sjfcontrol]

I'm using the phrase "Verbally show" to mean verbally indicating one's carry status as armed; to tell someone that there is a gun in your pocket. To raise ones shirt to reveal the gun shaped bulge in one's bicycle shorts would be to physically show.

I agree that it doesn't say anything in the book about telling someone in friendly conversation that you're armed (where others may hear you), but I do think that it's a little gray when you consider that bicycle pants and loose lips yield the same results; that you gotta' gun in your pants. And you've also, naturally, got to be careful in places where LEOs and shopkeepers may not get the concept of non-compliant signs.

Embalmo

Embalmo -- I think you are confusing yourself with your non-standard use of the English language. You simply CANNOT verbally (or orally) "show" something.

And as somebody else pointed out, that isn't what the law talks about anyway. The law says:

"Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

You "observe" stuff with your eyes, not your ears. The law does not say "...presence of which is not detectible by a reasonable person". That would include detection by any means.

[alpmc]

For this scenario, let's say I'm for absolute gun control and I don't think citizens should be armed! (I'm not even going to discuss the drinking!)

I'm sitting in Chili's and I hear this guy verbally disclose that he is armed. I call the Police and they arrive on scene. They ask me who has a gun and I point the guy out. Sure enough, they discover he has a gun.

I'm sitting in Chili's and I see this guy has a gun because he shows it to his friend. I call the Police and they arrive on scene. They ask me who has a gun and I point the guy out. Sure enough, they discover he has a gun.

I'm sitting in Chili's and I see this guy showing his CH License to his friend (or to a possible adversary in a threatening manner), I assume he may be armed. I call the Police and they arrive on scene. They ask me who has a gun and I point the guy out. Sure enough, they discover he has a gun.

If I'm just a bystander and I can point you out to Law Enforcement as being in possession of a firearm, then you have effectively "Failed to conceal"!

The facts concerning each individual situation listed above now becomes an issue of interpretation of the Law by Police and maybe later by Lawyers!

Concealed means Concealed! Strap it on.........cover it up.............and SHUT UP!!!!!

[Purplehood]

For this scenario, let's say I'm for absolute gun control and I don't think citizens should be armed! (I'm not even going to discuss the drinking!)

I'm sitting in Chili's and I hear this guy verbally disclose that he is armed. I call the Police and they arrive on scene. They ask me who has a gun and I point the guy out. Sure enough, they discover he has a gun.

I'm sitting in Chili's and I see this guy has a gun because he shows it to his friend. I call the Police and they arrive on scene. They ask me who has a gun and I point the guy out. Sure enough, they discover he has a gun.

I'm sitting in Chili's and I see this guy showing his CH License to his friend (or to a possible adversary in a threatening manner), I assume he may be armed. I call the Police and they arrive on scene. They ask me who has a gun and I point the guy out. Sure enough, they discover he has a gun.

If I'm just a bystander and I can point you out to Law Enforcement as being in possession of a firearm, then you have effectively "Failed to conceal"!

The facts concerning each individual situation listed above now becomes an issue of interpretation of the Law by Police and maybe later by Lawyers!

Concealed means Concealed! Strap it on.........cover it up.............and SHUT UP!!!!!

I think you might be stretching things.

You are going to call 911 because you heard a guy say he has a gun, or you heard a guy mention his CHL or showed his CHL? As a dispatcher, I am 99.9% positive that I am going to immediately ask if you saw a gun.

The vast majority of forum members probably agree with the mantra, Concealed is concealed. And that means not talking about it, not showing your CHL and certainly not displaying your weapon.

I know that if I am sitting in a restaurant with my best friend and he asks me to show him my CHL, I am going to discreetly show it to him. If some nearby lookey-loo has good enough eyesight or simply overheard and starts to call management and the police, I guarantee that I am going to be highly torked-off if folks start making noise about it.

I come across people in restaurants discussing all sorts of things that I ignore, as it ain't my business until and unless they do something to make it my business. My awareness may go up, and I may even move elsewhere or outright leave, but I am not going make a mountain out of a molehill over the stupid things that people say.

[Embalmo]

I'm using the phrase "Verbally show" to mean verbally indicating one's carry status as armed; to tell someone that there is a gun in your pocket. To raise ones shirt to reveal the gun shaped bulge in one's bicycle shorts would be to physically show.

I agree that it doesn't say anything in the book about telling someone in friendly conversation that you're armed (where others may hear you), but I do think that it's a little gray when you consider that bicycle pants and loose lips yield the same results; that you gotta' gun in your pants. And you've also, naturally, got to be careful in places where LEOs and shopkeepers may not get the concept of non-compliant signs.

Embalmo

Embalmo -- I think you are confusing yourself with your non-standard use of the English language. You simply CANNOT verbally (or orally) "show" something.

And as somebody else pointed out, that isn't what the law talks about anyway. The law says:

"Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

You "observe" stuff with your eyes, not your ears. The law does not say "...presence of which is not detectible by a reasonable person". That would include detection by any means.

I'm confusing myself through non-standard English? The revelation of information through verbal communication is hardly an obscure literary convention? Let's not discuss meanings, I'm notorious for my anti-semantic viewpoints.

Seriously though, I'm not confused over what the little white book sez, but I still think that revealing one's carry status, regardless of the medium, is iffy and will likely get you arrested and possibly prosecuted if a moron calls the poleese (at least here in Austin).

Embalmo