Carrying around OPC (Other People's Children)?

[LaserTex]

LCP in rear pocket. I can't think of a social setting where I would be ok with someone grabbing me there that didn't already know what was there. Just me....

Doug

[terryg]

If you're worried about being "outed" during a traffic stop, the easy fix is to obey the traffic laws.

That will, of course, go a long way to preventing a stop. But failed turn signals, licence plate bulbs, sometimes even driving below the speed limit - there are a dozen reasons you can get pulled over.

But its not really about the traffic stop - thats just a good example of how it can happen. Primarily, I am wanting to make sure that I am doing the right thing carrying in these situations at all. Then, secondly, I am attempting to play out various scenarios where I could be 'outed' to reduce the possibility and to consider what it would mean if it happens.

I know of an anti-gun family finding out that a CHL mom was carrying when around their kids and it wasn't pretty. I think what you do to lesson their concerns depends on how much you value the relationship. Definitely make it clear to your kids that it isn't a topic that we discuss with others. I have a huge issue with asking kids to keep a "secret" so I explain the difference between privacy and secrecy and I tell them that this is a private matter when something like that comes up. I then use the opportunity to go over what they should do if an adult ever asks them to keep a secret.

However, I also have some issues with my kids being around gun owners who aren't as careful as I think they should be. I am particularly concerned about guns that are in purses that are left unattended, inside car holsters that aren't locked, in the master bedroom nightstand drawer when kids are in and out of the bedroom, or other easily accessible places. I teach them gun safety, but it seems like an inordinate risk to take and I do limit their activities around those I don't think are careful enough with guns when children are around.

Hoi Polloi's story shows what could potentially happen - you have to at least be prepared for that possibility ...

[LaserTex]

I saw this answer somewhere on here....They explained to their children it was like talking about your underwear. You don't take about what is worn under your clothes. It is underwear and not to be discussed in public or with friends. Thought that was a superb answer...even without kids.

Doug

[Deltaboy]

It is nobodys business and if you are extra cautious with other people's kids like you should be you won't be outed by the LEO's. Outside of my work where I have to leave it locked in the car I carry on are with in hands reach 24/7.

[rm9792]

If you're worried about being "outed" during a traffic stop, the easy fix is to obey the traffic laws.

Nice utopian view. I get pulled over for no reason often. Unfortunately I work in a bad part of town and have a sportyish car. Officers usually walk up then get a "oops" look on their face upon seeing a balding old guy. I still get asked occaisonally for ID just to finish out the charade so could conceivably be asked when a coworker is with me. Not to mention that it would be nigh impossible to drive all day 5 days a week and not commit some sort of infraction. There are so many laws it is impossible to remember every little one, especially with Houston being surrounded by so many small cities with their own rules.

[phrogg]

If you're worried about being "outed" during a traffic stop, the easy fix is to obey the traffic laws.

Nice utopian view. I get pulled over for no reason often. Unfortunately I work in a bad part of town and have a sportyish car. Officers usually walk up then get a "oops" look on their face upon seeing a balding old guy. I still get asked occaisonally for ID just to finish out the charade so could conceivably be asked when a coworker is with me. Not to mention that it would be nigh impossible to drive all day 5 days a week and not commit some sort of infraction. There are so many laws it is impossible to remember every little one, especially with Houston being surrounded by so many small cities with their own rules.

This reminds me of my time when I was driving my 96 Impala SS every day. It is slammed (3" clearance) has huge 315/35 tires, totally blacked out from one end to the other (legal window tint though), and has a huge booming stereo. In the 7 or so years I drove that car I was stopped 26 times. One time was for speeding and the rest were for probable cause. I did pick up 4 tickets for expired inspection stickers during that time but mainly it was a situation where they came to the window and saw "balding middle-aged white guy" and went their merry way after letting me know my tint appeared to be too dark as they drove by, or no front plate, or license plate too close to the ground or something that was probably cause to stop me. It became pretty funny to me to see how often I would be stopped for something. I'm not complaining about how often I was stopped, I'm actually glad that they make stops because it often catches some other situation. But I was able to resolve the situation by driving with my windows down more often. I actually didn't get stopped again during the last year I drove it when I went windows down (bass booming) all the time. This time they could see the "balding middle-aged white guy" and roll on.

[The Annoyed Man]

Well, for one thing, concealed is concealed. No anti-gun parent is going to know I'm carrying, unless I were dumb enough to tell them.

For anther thing, if my own kids are involved, I'd be carrying, regardless of what some other parent thinks. Their kids' safety is important. My own kids' safety is more important. So if they did find out, and they didn't want their kids to ride in my car, that's fine. One less thing...

Both my wife and I carry in church, and I carry on stage during the worship segments. We sit together (both armed) during the first service. During our second services, my wife volunteers with the bambinos. She loves her some bambinos. But since she can't be absolutely certain on any given Sunday that a child won't somehow get into her purse, she disarms before going into the "Creation Land" area and locks her gun in the console of her car. But then she's down on the floor with the little ones (in her classroom, they are all in the 18 month to 2 yr old range) playing with them and so on, so she feels it is safer without the gun then. Even so, After I come off the stage during the second service, I'm usually hanging out on a sofa in the lobby, right outside Creation Land, and I am armed. Nobody is going to harm those kids or my wife if I can help it.

[phrogg]

I realized that I just posted but completely off topic.

So on topic, I am involved with my church's Youth Group, I lead worship in our Young Adults group, and I produce the main worship service (I only get to play in that one once a quarter or so...otherwise I'm behind the boards supervising mainly youth who help with all the technical details). I am around other people's kids nearly every day in one way or another. And I'm always carrying. Two of the youth I work with know that I carry. We are in just too many awkward positions and situations to keep the concealed part of the whole thing concealed. I've explained the situation to them and asked them to keep that info private. They know the code words I use with my family to refer to my concealed weapon. I don't know if they have said anything to their parents about it but I don't think that either would have an issue. But its a private matter (not a secret).

As far as all the other parents...I hope that the next time that I have to engage someone claiming to be Jesus who insists that we should let him sleep in the rather occupied Nursery since its his house will appreciate that I'm ready to protect them if things turn dangerous. Same goes with the office staff who regularly has large amounts of cash lying around on Monday morning.

Basically, I carry everywhere I go (except in the office...most of the time ) and I keep it concealed. If it becomes an issue with a parent, then they can volunteer to always be there to help out and protect my kids. But no one is going to protect my kids (or likely theirs) as well as I am. I consider it a large part of my responsibility there.

[terryg]

They know the code words I use with my family to refer to my concealed weapon.

Thanks phrogg. Any chance you would be willing to share the code words you use - or more importantly - the context in which you use them?

[terryg]

Well, for one thing, concealed is concealed. No anti-gun parent is going to know I'm carrying, unless I were dumb enough to tell them.

For anther thing, if my own kids are involved, I'd be carrying, regardless of what some other parent thinks. Their kids' safety is important. My own kids' safety is more important. So if they did find out, and they didn't want their kids to ride in my car, that's fine. One less thing...

Both my wife and I carry in church, and I carry on stage during the worship segments. We sit together (both armed) during the first service. During our second services, my wife volunteers with the bambinos. She loves her some bambinos. But since she can't be absolutely certain on any given Sunday that a child won't somehow get into her purse, she disarms before going into the "Creation Land" area and locks her gun in the console of her car. But then she's down on the floor with the little ones (in her classroom, they are all in the 18 month to 2 yr old range) playing with them and so on, so she feels it is safer without the gun then. Even so, After I come off the stage during the second service, I'm usually hanging out on a sofa in the lobby, right outside Creation Land, and I am armed. Nobody is going to harm those kids or my wife if I can help it.

Thanks TAM, that makes since - mostly. Given the number of times we play carpool and taxi - it is entirely conceivable that the information could be forced into the open by a routine traffic stop. Even though it is unlikely, it is not so rare that I can convince myself I don't need to be prepared for the consequence of some friend of my children finding out and telling their parents.

The other scenario, as I mentioned, is when I would be forced to disarm in the car because I am about to enter a school sporting activity to which I have just given rides. The only solutions I can think of is the pretend to forget something in the car on the way in or tell them to go on in and I will follow. Not a huge deal, but a little awkward nonetheless.

If I carry 24/7 (except to work - where I can't even have it in the parking lot - currently), then the 'rides to a school event' scenario will happen - there is no way around it.

[lowonair]

If you're worried about being "outed" during a traffic stop, the easy fix is to obey the traffic laws.

Nice utopian view. I get pulled over for no reason often. Unfortunately I work in a bad part of town and have a sportyish car. Officers usually walk up then get a "oops" look on their face upon seeing a balding old guy. I still get asked occaisonally for ID just to finish out the charade so could conceivably be asked when a coworker is with me. Not to mention that it would be nigh impossible to drive all day 5 days a week and not commit some sort of infraction. There are so many laws it is impossible to remember every little one, especially with Houston being surrounded by so many small cities with their own rules.

This reminds me of my time when I was driving my 96 Impala SS every day. It is slammed (3" clearance) has huge 315/35 tires, totally blacked out from one end to the other (legal window tint though), and has a huge booming stereo. In the 7 or so years I drove that car I was stopped 26 times. One time was for speeding and the rest were for probable cause. I did pick up 4 tickets for expired inspection stickers during that time but mainly it was a situation where they came to the window and saw "balding middle-aged white guy" and went their merry way after letting me know my tint appeared to be too dark as they drove by, or no front plate, or license plate too close to the ground or something that was probably cause to stop me. It became pretty funny to me to see how often I would be stopped for something. I'm not complaining about how often I was stopped, I'm actually glad that they make stops because it often catches some other situation. But I was able to resolve the situation by driving with my windows down more often. I actually didn't get stopped again during the last year I drove it when I went windows down (bass booming) all the time. This time they could see the "balding middle-aged white guy" and roll on.

always wanted a mid 90's impala ss. theres a few where i live but i dont see them too often. there's just something about them. even the same style caprice cloned into a impala ss isn't good enough.

[fwgrace]

I echo the general sentiment. I have no reservations about carrying around any children -- or even carrying a gun on my person while holding other people's babies, for that matter. The few people whom I've told that I carry are very appreciative; the rest are clueless.

The way I see it, carrying is part of who I am. If they trust their kids to be around me, then my gun is part of the deal. They trust me to be safe around their kids; I know that it is safe. That is sufficient.

Someone up there mentioned being afraid of getting found out through hugs. I was, too; I probably get dozens of hugs every week at church alone. But I have discovered that only a small percentage of people actually touch where my gun is -- and I believe nobody has realized what they were touching. I once had a friend (who is in on the secret) test it out. She knew exactly where it was and tried to feel it but couldn't. She was pretty surprised. =)

[lowonair]

i've never worried about other people's opinons. i'm protecting me and my family and others if justified though they aren't high on my list. i've had kids jump on me and all that and they dont seem to notice. even if they hit their heads on my pistol, they think its just something in my pockets or on my belt. i haven't been made yet.

[Weg]

I carry all the time while trucking around my teenage daughters and their friends. To my knowledge none of their friends know I carry, though my daughters know I carry all the time. I've always wondered what what would happen if I was pulled over or had a fender bender with them in my truck, guess i'll find out when it happens, but it won't change my carry habits.

[rdcrags]

Excellent post, many good thoughts and suggestions.

it is entirely conceivable that the information could be forced into the open by a routine traffic stop

I have been concerned about this, and not just with children in the car. Adults I know whom I don't wish to know that I am carrying. Delicate situation with no perfect answer, in my view. Can't depend on the cop to not say anything after looking at my CHL. Someone once suggested having a small printed card handy asking the cop to keep it quiet. Might work.

TX CHL 1997
CO CHP 2005