"Travelling" and "club"

[bobrogers]

Question: with reguard to carrying a "club" in your car...with or without a CHL, 46.02.b.3 seems to imply to me that if you are "travelling" it is OK. But I could not find anything that defines "travelling". If one is driving their car, they are travelling, aren't they?

The only reason I ask is that my daughter's bfriend keeps putting "clubs" in her car (mostly a 30mm open end wrench with a cloth wrapped around one end) between her driver's seat and the door because he says she may need protection. At 20 she can't have a CHL, so that is out. She has been removing them as I told her that was illegal. But am I correct?

[one eyed fatman]

If it's just a 30mm open end wrench then it's a tool not a club. No law against that. I carry a 12 or 14 inch fish bat in my truck. A LEO pulled me over and saw it. His remark to me was "make sure you also carry a ball in your truck". The bat alone could be considered a club but if you also have a ball with you then it's just sports stuff.

[dws1117]

Please corect me if I am indeed wrong, but isn't it legal in texas to have a loaded long gun in your vehicle? If it is legal then your daughter, at 20, is old enough to buy a long gun.

[Charles L. Cotton]

You are correct, you can have a loaded long gun in your car. Beware, there will be a bill filed in the 2005 session that would make carrying a long gun in your car illegal, without a CHL. I'll post a notice in the 2005 Texas Legislative Session when it's filed.

[dws1117]

Thanks for the confirmation and the heads up. Not too early to start writing letters.

[Greybeard]

I also have a 20 year-old daughter, still a year shy of CHL eligibility. But that has not kept her from carrying OC just about everywhere. Or "packing the Mak" when she "travels".

Not a lawyer here, but while tools or bats may often be carried around quite legally, the instant they are used to whup someone up side of the head they may be viewed as "a club" - and the beginning of "Problem #2".

Unfortunately, there is no clear-cut definition of "traveling" in penal code. The way it was explained to us in '95 instructor skul was that with 254 counties in Tejas, there might well be at least 254 interpretations, which often keeps lawyers quite occupied.

[MoJo]

A three or four cell Maglite serves a dual purpose - - - emergency lighting and "a weapon of opportunity" if the need arises. OC is a wonderful tool provided you don't spray yourself in the process. Never use OC indoors (automobile included) or with the wind in your face!!!!

Again, I'd rather myself or a loved one be judged by twelve peers than carried by six friends.

[center mass]

If it's just a 30mm open end wrench then it's a tool not a club. No law against that. I carry a 12 or 14 inch fish bat in my truck. A LEO pulled me over and saw it. His remark to me was "make sure you also carry a ball in your truck". The bat alone could be considered a club but if you also have a ball with you then it's just sports stuff.
_________________
since it's a "fish" bat, better advice would been to carry a trout in your truck don't you think?

[Bubba]

You are correct, you can have a loaded long gun in your car. Beware, there will be a bill filed in the 2005 session that would make carrying a long gun in your car illegal, without a CHL. I'll post a notice in the 2005 Texas Legislative Session when it's filed.

This is sad news (stinkin liberals) since I carried a shotgun in my car since I was old enough to drive. I hope this gun control crap doesn't get passed !!!

[Charles L. Cotton]

We can't afford to get complacent, but I think we'll be able to defeat this bill. As with any anti-gun bill, we need to be ready to contact our legislators, if the need arises. I'll post a notice in the Legislative Section when the bill is filed and will update its status, as the session progresses.

Chas.

[govtman]

Question: with reguard to carrying a "club" in your car...with or without a CHL, 46.02.b.3 seems to imply to me that if you are "travelling" it is OK. But I could not find anything that defines "travelling". If one is driving their car, they are travelling, aren't they?

Texas courts, over the last century, have repeatedly asked the Legislature to define “traveling�, and the Legislature has never seen fit to define it. Thus, “traveling� will be determined on an ad hoc basis by the trier of fact, i.e. the jury in a jury trial or the judge in a bench trial. It has been said that “[t]he case law attempting to apply the defense is in a ‘condition of hopeless confusion’�. See George v. State, 90 Tex. Crim. 179, 234 S.W. 87, 88 (1921); Birch v. State, 948 S.W.2d 880, 882 (Tex. App.--San Antonio 1997, no pet.). However, a long journey across several counties will generally suffice.

Moreover, you should note that “traveling� is a defense to prosecution. This means that a peace officer can arrest you for UCW and it will be your responsibility to submit evidence that you were indeed “traveling�, before you can use the defense. Consequently, you are taking a risk every time you rely on this defense.

[bobrogers]

Thanks govtman. Good information.

Is now a moot point as my daughter broke up with the guy last night.

[nemesis]

The definition of "traveling" is open to interpretation but the minimum common denominator seems to say the you must be traveling outside of your home county and remaining overnight. The simple fact that you remain away from your home, in a temporary domicile overnight, seems to be the key.

[Paladin]

Texas courts, over the last century, have repeatedly asked the Legislature to define “traveling”, and the Legislature has never seen fit to define it.

I was reading in the TSRA newletter yesterday that the TSRA is currently working to get the legislature to define "traveling" to include all car travel. They are still in the early stages of this and from the sound of it, I'm not sure anything will happen this year on it...

So I guess we're going to be in limbo for a while longer.

[govtman]

I was reading in the TSRA newletter yesterday that the TSRA is currently working to get the legislature to define "traveling" to include all car travel. They are still in the early stages of this and from the sound of it, I'm not sure anything will happen this year on it...

So I guess we're going to be in limbo for a while longer.

Paladin, I’m a TSRA member as well; however, I haven't gotten a chance to read the newsletter yet. Nevertheless, I suspect that the Legislature won’t define “traveling�, but would amend PC §46.15(g)'s definition of "premises" to include a car.

That subsection currently states, “For the purpose of Subsection (b)(2), ‘premises’ includes a recreational vehicle that is being used by the person carrying the handgun, illegal knife, or club as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, ‘recreational vehicle’ means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.�

It would be wiser to do it that way, because car carry would become legal, while preserving the “traveling� defense for other situations.