51% sign

[center mass]

Anyone know how the 51% sign is posted? Who determines how much business a store does related to alcohol sales? Does the store manager request the designation or does the state look at the books and order the sign posted?

A place I do business with recently posted one and I find it hard to believe he sells that much beer compared to gas and everything else. I suspect he wants to restrict ccw but wants some one else to take the heat. They were recently robbed at gunpoint by a crack whore. Imagine how surprised they must have been to find out criminals don't give a rat's ass about obeying the law.

[RatMan]

Anyone know how the 51% sign is posted? Who determines how much business a store does related to alcohol sales? Does the store manager request the designation or does the state look at the books and order the sign posted?

The way I understand it is the TABC determines and post the sign. If you doubt the validity of the sign I would suggest you contact the TABC to find out.

[Lindy]

The signs are posted by the businesses. They are, of course, supposed to be posted in businesses which derive more than half of their sales from the on-premises consumption of alcohol, and I've seen at least one sign that I doubted the validity of. If you carry into such a business, you might encounter legal problems even if you later prove, by conducting an audit of their books under a court order, that they don't.

I would respond to a probably bogus sign like that by telling the owner or manager that I was taking my business elsewhere. I don't like to support businesses which don't want people like me around.

[RatMan]

The signs are posted by the businesses. They are, of course, supposed to be posted in businesses which derive more than half of their sales from the on-premises consumption of alcohol, and I've seen at least one sign that I doubted the validity of. If you carry into such a business, you might encounter legal problems even if you later prove, by conducting an audit of their books under a court order, that they don't.

They may be physically posted by the business owner, but they are obtained from, and issed by, the TABC as I stated. See Texas Penal Code clip below:

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.
........

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued
under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if
the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the
sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption,
as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under
Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

.....

[center mass]

Thanks for the responses. I was struck by the "on premises" consumption part. This is a 7-11 type convenience store I was referring to which raises the question of how he was issued a sign when on premises consumption is illegal there and there is probably yet another notice saying that. I'm going to look next time I'm there.

[RatMan]

Thanks for the responses. I was struck by the "on premises" consumption part. This is a 7-11 type convenience store I was referring to which raises the question of how he was issued a sign when on premises consumption is illegal there and there is probably yet another notice saying that. I'm going to look next time I'm there.

If it's a 7-11 type store, I would drop a dime to the TABC and turn them in. I would bet that the owner/manager obtained the signs outside of "normal" channels.

[Warhorse545]

Yep the store is in error. We had a local liquor store here that had both the 30.06 and 51% signs posted. I called TABC and since then the 51% sign is gone. 30.06 is still up and he does not get my biz.



Stacey.

[rickb308]

Thanks for the responses. I was struck by the "on premises" consumption part. This is a 7-11 type convenience store I was referring to which raises the question of how he was issued a sign when on premises consumption is illegal there and there is probably yet another notice saying that. I'm going to look next time I'm there.

If it's a 7-11 type store, I would drop a dime to the TABC and turn them in. I would bet that the owner/manager obtained the signs outside of "normal" channels.

Sometimes, and I have seen the "excuse" used, is that chain stores receive a signage "package" from their printer, and it has the 51% sign included.
Cannot remember off of the top of my head right now as to which store last used this "excuse".

[mec]

the only inappropriate use of the 51% sign i;ve seen was its placement on the front door of the Waco Convention Center. Apparently they either didn't like the size of the 30:06 or there was a shortage of them at the time. In any case, the managers of the center or the city dads were fwightened and afwaid that somebody would chl in there.

The convention center doesn't serve alcohol at all

The 51% signs were mandated by the legislature when the head of the Texas Liquore Control authority attempted to legislate that it remained a felony to carry in any business with an alcohol license -including grocery stores and convenience stores. This subject was a hold-over from the Ann Richards administration. The legislature got a little miffed and when it came back into session amended the law to:
1. Require the bureaucrat in question to audit every business that sells alcohol for off premises consumption and supply all that made more than half of their income from those sales with 51% signs which they were require to post;
2. ammend the felony posting to include the language " unlicensed possession of...". Making it clear that the head of the Liquor control board has no authority to circumvent legislative intent and that licensed carry on premises that sell alchoholic beverages does not fall under the felony provisions of the penal code.

[ElGato]

The type of store you described is required to post by TABC, but it's the blue and white sign from 46.02 for all business that sell, but not for on premises consumption. The sign reads " The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximim penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine of not to exceed $10,000."
The key words of course are " The unlicensed possession "
Tomcat
CHL Inst. 3540[/url][/u]

[carlson1]

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.
........

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued
under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if
the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the
sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption,
as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under
Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

OK, so, let me see if I understand . . . No bars, but liquor stores? I do not do either, but I would like to know. I am a Baptist Pastor and I was told in Bible college the difference between the Methodist and the Baptist was the Methodist would speak to you at the liquor store.

[KBCraig]

OK, so, let me see if I understand . . . No bars, but liquor stores?

More than that... only speaking of alcohol, not other restrictions, you're free to carry everywhere except a bar. And "bar" has a strict legal definition, meaning a place that exceeds 51% of revenue by sales of alcohol for on-premises consumption. To be a "bar", the establishment must be explicitly licensed as such by TABC.

I'm sure there are "bars" in Texas, but I've never seen one. Many counties and municipalities don't allow them. I'm in a dry county, so every restaurant is a "private club". I can belly up to the bar at Texas Roadhouse, Applebee's, or El Chico, but I won't be at a "bar" per TABC.

(I can also drink in public, but can't buy anything to take home, unless I cross the state line to Arkansas. A current petition drive will probably put a wet/dry initiative on the ballot for May.)

I do not do either, but I would like to know. I am a Baptist Pastor and I was told in Bible college the difference between the Methodist and the Baptist was the Methodist would speak to you at the liquor store.

The way I heard it, someone was ranting about the decline in values, and "...things have gotten so bad, the Baptists will even speak to one another in the liquor store!"

I'm a Nazarene myself. We don't make an issue of it, except that the Handbook says you can't be a member in good standing and be in the business of "trafficking" in alcohol or tobacco. Church leaders are required to abstain, and members are "encouraged" to abstain.

I once had to laugh at a co-worker who went to every length to deny that the miracle at Cana involved actual wine, with alcohol content. He was so determined to invoke a non-existent Biblical prohibition of alcohol, that he forgot some of the actual prohibitions. Like gluttony, for instance... when he and his wife and their five kids line up the pizza buffet, the outweigh the starting offensive line of the Cowboys! Or "love thy neighbor...", because he's quick to condemn anyone who doesn't live to his standards. He's one of those "fishers of men" who insist the fish has to be cleaned before he lets it in the boat.

We've (I've) strayed a bit off-topic here. LOL

Kevin

[jimlongley]

Thanks for the responses. I was struck by the "on premises" consumption part. This is a 7-11 type convenience store I was referring to which raises the question of how he was issued a sign when on premises consumption is illegal there and there is probably yet another notice saying that. I'm going to look next time I'm there.

If it's a 7-11 type store, I would drop a dime to the TABC and turn them in. I would bet that the owner/manager obtained the signs outside of "normal" channels.

Sometimes, and I have seen the "excuse" used, is that chain stores receive a signage "package" from their printer, and it has the 51% sign included.
Cannot remember off of the top of my head right now as to which store last used this "excuse".

That's the excuse I got from Bass Pro in Grapevine after I wrote to them about their "No Firearms" signs. The following week they were gone.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I am a Baptist Pastor and I was told in Bible college the difference between the Methodist and the Baptist was the Methodist would speak to you at the liquor store.

That and we Baptists can't drink in public.

Chas.

[ElGato]

I'm a Nazarene who is very comfortable in a Baptist or Methodist Church, and likes a single shot of good Tequila ever now and then, my GGGGrandfather Redman Boyd is credited with bringing Methodistum to North-East Texas, ( Cooper, Sulphur Bluff, Charleston, Paris ) in the 1800's.
To stay on track I'm sure he carried a gun in his travels between the six Church's he established, and I never go anywhere I might find a 51% sign.


Tomcat