Question on open carry for U.S. Military in Texas...

[VoiceofReason]

Thank you all, for the many posts.

I'll have my wife warn him (or her superiors), the next time he shows up armed.

Again, we are both Military-brats, and hold a special place in our hearts for our Troops. We know what they go through first hand. So we are loath, to get a soldier into any trouble.

But if it is against the law for him to OC (especially into a school), we would have no issue giving him a warning, and then call the Police, should he ignore the warning, and show up again armed.
At that point he has been "Schooled." Please forgive the pun, I couldn't resist.

As always, many thanks for the great information and suggestions.

My advice is for your wife not to confront him. I believe your wife should make the principal aware of the situation and the principal should call the police. If the guy is legitimate you will not be getting him in trouble. If he is not, you do not know what will happen if your wife or the principal confront him in the school.

No one knows what the true situation is. No one knows if he may be going to other schools. Too many unknowns. It is best to let law enforcement sort it out, hopefully away from a school.

Just my opinion.

[blue]

X2

Voice of Reason is right.
--------------------------
Your wife was lucky this time.

The next person ('S ) may not be so lucky. (STUDENTS/TEACHERS!)



-----ANYONE taking a gun into a school should INSTANTLY trigger ALL ALARMS AND THE FULLEST RESPONSE POSSIBLE ON SIGHT----.
----PERIOD!----



-FULLEST RESPONSE is the ONLY protection for students and faculty AT ALL, since schools are disarmed by law and school admin.

Regards,
Blue

[gigag04]

Military by Fed'l law cannot operate within US for tactical operations. If there needs to be a high speed terrorist killing team they call FBI's HRT which is on par with Delta/Seals/SF/Force Recon when it comes to CT and tactical high risk operations.

Can you imagine a covert op Delta operator going the through a grand jury for a law enforcement related shooting?

This was one of the primary arguments for the creation of HRT.

[jmra]

Does your isd not have LEO's on campus? I teach at a small charter school and even we have a donut consumer or two hanging around. I can't imagine how anyone other than an LEO would get past the front door in OC mode.

[Kythas]

Military by Fed'l law cannot operate within US for tactical operations. If there needs to be a high speed terrorist killing team they call FBI's HRT which is on par with Delta/Seals/SF/Force Recon when it comes to CT and tactical high risk operations.

Can you imagine a covert op Delta operator going the through a grand jury for a law enforcement related shooting?

This was one of the primary arguments for the creation of HRT.

That's not technically correct. Posse Comitatus prohibits the use of US military personnel within the borders of the US for law enforcement purposes. If the military couldn't perform tactical operations at all within the US, then they wouldn't be able to repel a military invasion and Air Force jets wouldn't be allowed to fly CAP over US territory. Members of the military under Federal control are forbidden from exercising general police powers except on federal property.

This is one reason why the President can't really order National Guard troops to the border to prohibit illegal immigration. If the President orders the National Guard to the border, they would then be doing so while under Federal orders. Border security in the US is a law enforcement, not military, activity. Therefore, the President ordering the National Guard to enforce border laws would be a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act. If the governor wanted to do that, it would then be legal, as the National Guard would then be under State and not Federal control.

The Coast Guard is exempt from Posse Comitatus, by the way.

[chabouk]

I'm leaning towards either mall ninja, or a local LEO (or wannabe), with a misunderstanding about what he actually claimed to be.

The term "Special Operations Forces" is a catch-all for all U.S. special combat units, and not something soldiers typically say. They claim whatever they happen to be: Rangers, SF, MARSOC, SEALs, Pararescue, etc., etc.... That is, if they make any claim at all. Most are pretty quiet about what they do, and do little to draw attention to it (other than Rangers ).

The only uniform-wearing soldiers who routinely wear an issue sidearm off post are MPs. Anyone else would have a heckuva time even getting one out of the arms room, much less off post. If this is an actual soldier, chances are he's carrying a personally owned firearm in uniform, which is a big no-no.

I honestly don't care if he's breaking the law. It's a stupid law, one most of us wish to see abolished (well... several laws: school premises ban, open carry ban, and federal GFSZA). But he's throwing all kinds of red flags by his behavior, and I wouldn't feel comfortable until someone checked him out.

[G26ster]

I still want to know who are these military personnel, other than military criminal investigative personnel, who are running around the U.S. in civilian clothes on duty and off base? Also, Dragonfighter, what counter-insurgency operations are taking place in the U.S.? I'm not addressing FBI or any other policing agencies, I'm talking military personnel. Also, in overseas combat theaters, military personnel conducting operations in anything other than military uniforms is a violation of the Geneva Convention IIRC. If they are covert in civies, they should not be military (CIA perhaps). Set me straight.

[PeteCamp]

Military by Fed'l law cannot operate within US for tactical operations.

I agree with Kythas on this. And I'm not sure exactly where the line is drawn. Along the border we have had folks who looked very much like spec ops assisting the US Border Patrol for some time. I even had breakfast with some of them. No uniforms, but definitely active military. I am sure they were not doing police-type work. Interdicting? Probably, but who knows what. You're not going to see them in Houston, San Antonio, or DFW but along the border in the Big Bend area and NW to El Paso.

To the Op ... I agree that if this guy is legit, he won't get in trouble if it is reported. If not, what was he doing in a school? Scouting? Seeing how easily he could get in? Looking for the softest target?

[Mando'a]

Does your isd not have LEO's on campus? I teach at a small charter school and even we have a donut consumer or two hanging around. I can't imagine how anyone other than an LEO would get past the front door in OC mode.

Yes, they have an LEO there. I've never seen him there, but I only get over there once every few weeks, to pick up my son.

My wife did make the Principal aware of what occurred. At that point, I can't honestly say, why the Police were/were not informed.

I do know the layout of the office though. The Secretary would not have been able to see the gun due to the height of the counter.
My wife saw it as she entered the office. That was when she told him that firearms are not permitted on school property.

He was dropping off his child.

After writing the above line... I'm beginning to believe in the Poser theory.

Round Rock is a good distance from Ft. Hood. At least an hour drive. The only other base around here is in Austin (Camp Mabry), but it is very small.
Then the AF base in San Antonio. (at least I believe it is USAF)

[Mando'a]

My wife hasn't seen him since, nor has the Secretary.

[gigag04]

Military by Fed'l law cannot operate within US for tactical operations.

Along the border we have had folks who looked very much like spec ops assisting the US Border Patrol for some time. I even had breakfast with some of them. No uniforms, but definitely active military. I am sure they were not doing police-type work. Interdicting? Probably, but who knows what. You're not going to see them in Houston, San Antonio, or DFW but along the border in the Big Bend area and NW to El Paso.
?

BORTAC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BORTAC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Were you sure they were military? I know that HRT does raids with Bortac at time. The USMS has SOG, and DEA has FAST and both of those will look JUST like military special operations capable units. Many of these units cross train with the most elite CT groups in the world. I also have 1st hand info that some of the 19th and 20th SFG will operate on the MX side and assist with raids and stuff. Not sure the logistics but in the Fed'l tac team people I've spoken with that is the reason that HRT and other elite fed'l tac teams were created - they cannot lean on SF/SEALS/RECON/DELTA to fix problems in the US nor do they want they want their operators having to testify in court. I could be wrong, but this is my understanding.

I understand that in a time of war they could obviously operate on US soil.

[ericlw]

I know some millitary people who do "special ops" or whatever and they dont even tell their wife when they are leaving or coming back and where they went.

[Dragonfighter]

CID, counter insurgency et al are all "special operations" that do not wear uniforms as a matter of course.

Yes, but CID investigates "within" the military, as police. I'm not familiar with counter insurgency forces within the US. Can you elaborate as to their role?

None I am aware of...just an example of non-uniformed military duty.

Added in edit: G26ster, eeeeaaasy there podner. I just got through the second page and just now got through your second post on this. IIRC there was a question about military personnel in general and special operations in particular operating in civilianized clothing. It's an aside and kind of moot in this case because this fellow was in uniform either legit or contrived.

Added in edit of my edit:

Ravens in Viet Nam, SF advisers and counter insurgency and target designation teams were and are special operations where civilianized clothing is used. Unmarked uniforms are also used regularly, SEALS, SF etc. The Geneva convention addresses uniforms as it pertains to POW's in Section 4. To be a POW a regular uniform, open carry of weapons and/or a command structure are necessary to be afforded the rights of POW. Also the Geneva convention is majorly concerning who may be engaged and what treatment is afforded those that have "laid down" arms, rules of occupation, etc.

Unlawful combatants are civilian, non-military and are not afforded protection under the Geneva Conventions. That said I can find no requirement that a military, lawful combatant must have a regular or any uniform. The danger level goes up exponentially in that capture by an opposing force (not to mention friendly fire) while in civilianized clothing may result in treatment as an unlawful combatant...but only those who are ascribed to the Geneva Conventions are likely to even consider this. Al Quaeda, the Taliban and associated cohorts can give one wit about the Geneva Conventions.

When I trained on missions involving locating and designating targets at night (30 years ago) I wore black denim pants (with pantyhose for warmth ), "commando" sweaters (the designation escapes me) and ski masks that started out rolled up like toboggans. We had light web gear, black with our gerber, monocular and side arm (in my case)...that's it. We did have dog tags, taped and concealed.

[G26ster]

No problem Dragonfighter. I guess I just used too much bold face to emphasize military ops in civies, and no excitement was intended. I guess it's best left out of this thread/forum.

[11BInfantry]

I still want to know who are these military personnel, other than military criminal investigative personnel, who are running around the U.S. in civilian clothes on duty and off base? Also, Dragonfighter, what counter-insurgency operations are taking place in the U.S.? I'm not addressing FBI or any other policing agencies, I'm talking military personnel. Also, in overseas combat theaters, military personnel conducting operations in anything other than military uniforms is a violation of the Geneva Convention IIRC. If they are covert in civies, they should not be military (CIA perhaps). Set me straight.

On duty and off base in the US, No clue. On duty and in theater, there are some units that need to operate out of military issued uniforms to conduct conter-terrorism and counter-insurgency operations. Those which remain "unnamed."