New CHL requirements???

[boomerang]

On two different occasions over post-exam coffee I nicely, and unargumentively, asked a new CHLer how he goes about field stripping the M1911 he had just used on the range. Neither of them had the slightest idea how to go about it, much less put it back together.

Lots of people on the internet have no clue how to upgrade their RAM.

[marksiwel]

Michael Bellesiles's Arming America has been thoroughly debunked. The publisher withdrew the book from publication, and the author resigned his academic position after an investigation focused on errors and fabrications in the book.

This Wikipedia article is correct, as far as I know the facts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arming_Ame ... un_Culture" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can follow the sources from the Wikipedia article if you don't believe it.

If you want an accurate picture of the prevalence of firearms and marksmanship in colonial America, please see Stephen Holbrook's The Founders' Second Amendment.

- Jim

Thank you, I'll check that out. I still think the reality is somewhere in the middle of those two.

[srothstein]

Steve, if I'm in error, my apologies and please correct me.

You had it exactly correct. Thanks for jumping in with it. Working for the state, we get a little sloppy sometimes since we all use the word "session" as a short cut for the legislative session. It tends to preoccupy a lot of the time and office discussions in Austin. We are already working on preparation for the 2011 legislative session and it seems like we still have not finished going over everything that happened in the last one.

[O6nop]

Just my opinion.

I feel a little better knowing that other people with a CHL have some knowledge of how to use it, when not to, and can put most of the rounds where they intend to.

The "I feel..." argument is used most often by anti's and I'm surprised to see it used in this forum. Arguments like " 'I feel' that more guns on the street are going to lead to more crime" , " 'I feel' that if anybody wants to carry concealed, they have some criminal intent that they are hiding" , " 'I feel' there will be blood in the streets/on campus/at work/in hospitals/at the Capitol, if concealed carry/parking lot law/ passes", need more facts or logic before being used.

Just my opinion

[marksiwel]

you need to know, or be taught how to use and clean your weapon before you get a CHL. I dont care if you feel that way or if its a law, I want it to happen.

I wish more CHL Instructors would offer different classes (not make it a law or anything)
1. CHL Beginners (people with little to no knowledge of weapons) Spend an extra hour cleaning, shooting ect
2. Chl Moderate People who know whats going on, take the class, shoot like normal
3. Chl Advanced, basically a Renewal Class, go over some tactical "drills" situational awareness, deescalation

[OldSchool]

Just my opinion.

I feel a little better knowing that other people with a CHL have some knowledge of how to use it, when not to, and can put most of the rounds where they intend to.

The "I feel..." argument is used most often by anti's and I'm surprised to see it used in this forum. Arguments like " 'I feel' that more guns on the street are going to lead to more crime" , " 'I feel' that if anybody wants to carry concealed, they have some criminal intent that they are hiding" , " 'I feel' there will be blood in the streets/on campus/at work/in hospitals/at the Capitol, if concealed carry/parking lot law/ passes", need more facts or logic before being used.

Just my opinion

Actually, "I feel" along with VoiceOfReason. The Founding Fathers, I believe, gave more than enough hint of their belief in "Rights = Responsibility". This is a topic independent from the licensing discussion, but rather is a discussion of Good Citizenship, as we used to be taught in grade school.

"I feel" that "I feel" is a statement of honesty, and should never be beaten back.

Just my opinion.

[marksiwel]

Just my opinion.

I feel a little better knowing that other people with a CHL have some knowledge of how to use it, when not to, and can put most of the rounds where they intend to.

The "I feel..." argument is used most often by anti's and I'm surprised to see it used in this forum. Arguments like " 'I feel' that more guns on the street are going to lead to more crime" , " 'I feel' that if anybody wants to carry concealed, they have some criminal intent that they are hiding" , " 'I feel' there will be blood in the streets/on campus/at work/in hospitals/at the Capitol, if concealed carry/parking lot law/ passes", need more facts or logic before being used.

Just my opinion

Actually, "I feel" along with VoiceOfReason. The Founding Fathers, I believe, gave more than enough hint of their belief in "Rights = Responsibility". This is a topic independent from the licensing discussion, but rather is a discussion of Good Citizenship, as we used to be taught in grade school.

"I feel" that "I feel" is a statement of honesty, and should never be beaten back.

Just my opinion.

[O6nop]

Just my opinion.

I feel a little better knowing that other people with a CHL have some knowledge of how to use it, when not to, and can put most of the rounds where they intend to.

The "I feel..." argument is used most often by anti's and I'm surprised to see it used in this forum. Arguments like " 'I feel' that more guns on the street are going to lead to more crime" , " 'I feel' that if anybody wants to carry concealed, they have some criminal intent that they are hiding" , " 'I feel' there will be blood in the streets/on campus/at work/in hospitals/at the Capitol, if concealed carry/parking lot law/ passes", need more facts or logic before being used.

Just my opinion

Actually, "I feel" along with VoiceOfReason. The Founding Fathers, I believe, gave more than enough hint of their belief in "Rights = Responsibility". This is a topic independent from the licensing discussion, but rather is a discussion of Good Citizenship, as we used to be taught in grade school.

"I feel" that "I feel" is a statement of honesty, and should never be beaten back.

Just my opinion.

That's fine, they can honestly say they don't use facts or logic to argue legal matters. After all, "I feel" is nothing more than an opinion, and I agree shouldn't be beaten back. But it's not a basis for argument.
The Founding Fathers not only 'hinted', but insisted that rights are not given, they just are, and their task was to make those clear. The only responsibility they issued was to be aware of how to be free from tyranny. Therefore rights don't equate with responsibility.

[O6nop]

you need to know, or be taught how to use and clean your weapon before you get a CHL. I dont care if you feel that way or if its a law, I want it to happen.

I wish more CHL Instructors would offer different classes (not make it a law or anything)
1. CHL Beginners (people with little to no knowledge of weapons) Spend an extra hour cleaning, shooting ect
2. Chl Moderate People who know whats going on, take the class, shoot like normal
3. Chl Advanced, basically a Renewal Class, go over some tactical "drills" situational awareness, deescalation

I hope I'm not steering this off topic but I think it's relevant...
Please list the three classes you think should be taught for voting, freedom of speech, or what religion you should choose before exercising them. I feel those could be dangerous if not exercised properly.

[marksiwel]

you need to know, or be taught how to use and clean your weapon before you get a CHL. I dont care if you feel that way or if its a law, I want it to happen.

I wish more CHL Instructors would offer different classes (not make it a law or anything)
1. CHL Beginners (people with little to no knowledge of weapons) Spend an extra hour cleaning, shooting ect
2. Chl Moderate People who know whats going on, take the class, shoot like normal
3. Chl Advanced, basically a Renewal Class, go over some tactical "drills" situational awareness, deescalation

I hope I'm not steering this off topic but I think it's relevant...
Please list the three classes you think should be taught for voting, freedom of speech, or what religion you should choose before exercising them. I feel those could be dangerous if not exercised properly.

Well, we allready have a CHL Class, so its too late isnt it?
Also I dont want 3 classes, I want a variety of CHL Classes.

In "Marksiwel America" you wouldn't get Most of your Rights until you had completed some sort of Civil Service, during that civil service you would be taught How to handle a Firearm, and critical thinking (that should cover Religion and Voting)

But thats just me

If they are going to do this silly CHL nonsense atleast do it right.

[boomerang]

situational awareness, deescalation

I think the course requirements still include nonviolent dispute resolution. Talking to newcomers, it sounds like few instructors actually teach it. I did hear of one instructor who told students the answer to the TA/PAC question but otherwise taught nothing on that topic, but he had time to show videos!

[marksiwel]

situational awareness, deescalation

I think the course requirements still include nonviolent dispute resolution. Talking to newcomers, it sounds like few instructors actually teach it. I did hear of one instructor who told students the answer to the TA/PAC question but otherwise taught nothing on that topic, but he had time to show videos!

Half the class should be that, I'm suprised the DPS hasnt made any videos on the subject

[O6nop]

Well, we allready have a CHL Class, so its too late isnt it?

Only if we all give up.

In "Marksiwel America" you wouldn't get Most of your Rights until...

Don't use the word "America" in the description of that government. It scares me that we are already heading there.

[marksiwel]

Well, we allready have a CHL Class, so its too late isnt it?

Only if we all give up.

In "Marksiwel America" you wouldn't get Most of your Rights until...

Don't use the word "America" in the description of that government. It scares me that we are already heading there.

it's more of a "Starship Troopers"

Also we are in North America.
Mexicans, Canadians, Venezuelans,ect are all "Americans"

[O6nop]

situational awareness, deescalation

I think the course requirements still include nonviolent dispute resolution. Talking to newcomers, it sounds like few instructors actually teach it. I did hear of one instructor who told students the answer to the TA/PAC question but otherwise taught nothing on that topic, but he had time to show videos!

Half the class should be that, I'm suprised the DPS hasnt made any videos on the subject

That class should be taught and passed in order to get out of the fifth grade and every year after that!