Open Carry?

[MBGuy]

I think it's now or never.

From what I hear from people in general (pro-gun/on the fence/anti-gun), it's not that big a deal and it's becomming customary to assume that anyone may have a gun. The general public mindset is on our side more than it's been in decades.

Also, I think what's on Charles' mind is the public's mindset of 1995, which is completely opposite of what it is currently. While it has some merit, I don't think the effect will be quite that dramatic. Even Channel 2 news is reporting CHL carriers in a neutral maner.

I have OC'd in Louisiana and Kentucky. No on pays attention. Amazing, having grown accustomed to "hiding" it, like it's something to be ashamed of, only to find out that no one even notices. It's quite refreshing to be able to tuck in your shirt when you want to look presentable, with tight Wranglers, and still have options on how to carry.

I think we need to get over these quasi fears and do it, and hopefully we''ll use McDonald vs. Chicago to do so, but I know that here I'm in the minority. After all, that's the name of the site.

And that "this is Texas, we do it our own way". Wow. Since when is it a bragging right that we have lesser rights? In Louisiana there are no silly laws against when or where you can buy alcohol, or when/where you can gamble, etc, or how you can carry your gun. But we brag about "Texas"..... I'm proud of being a Texan, but to say that everything is fine and dandy when it isn't doesn't quite fit the bill. Come on, we should be working to gain more rights, not be afraid and argue against the justifications for doing so like WE were the anti-gunners. Having OC be legal doesn't force anyone to OC more than having alcohol be legal force anyone to drink. It's a choice......it's called Liberty.

Let's get to work......it's now or never....and much like business' growth, if we decide that this is good enough, the pendulum begins to swing the other way, it doesn't stand still. And that WILL affect those of you that only wish to conceal carry.

[frazzled]

I think it's now or never.

From what I hear from people in general (pro-gun/on the fence/anti-gun), it's not that big a deal and it's becomming customary to assume that anyone may have a gun. The general public mindset is on our side more than it's been in decades.

Also, I think what's on Charles' mind is the public's mindset of 1995, which is completely opposite of what it is currently. While it has some merit, I don't think the effect will be quite that dramatic. Even Channel 2 news is reporting CHL carriers in a neutral maner.

I have OC'd in Louisiana and Kentucky. No on pays attention. Amazing, having grown accustomed to "hiding" it, like it's something to be ashamed of, only to find out that no one even notices. It's quite refreshing to be able to tuck in your shirt when you want to look presentable, with tight Wranglers, and still have options on how to carry.

I think we need to get over these quasi fears and do it, and hopefully we''ll use McDonald vs. Chicago to do so, but I know that here I'm in the minority. After all, that's the name of the site.

And that "this is Texas, we do it our own way". Wow. Since when is it a bragging right that we have lesser rights? In Louisiana there are no silly laws against when or where you can buy alcohol, or when/where you can gamble, etc, or how you can carry your gun. But we brag about "Texas"..... I'm proud of being a Texan, but to say that everything is fine and dandy when it isn't doesn't quite fit the bill. Come on, we should be working to gain more rights, not be afraid and argue against the justifications for doing so like WE were the anti-gunners. Having OC be legal doesn't force anyone to OC more than having alcohol be legal force anyone to drink. It's a choice......it's called Liberty.

Let's get to work......it's now or never....and much like business' growth, if we decide that this is good enough, the pendulum begins to swing the other way, it doesn't stand still. And that WILL affect those of you that only wish to conceal carry.

I think its never. Your personal experiences in these other states are fine, but are not transferable to the metropolitan areas of Texas.
Again i don't want to compare our silly laws with those of Louisiana, because then we have to compare all the laws and other things and I don't want to pget into a pushy shovy on states, which would not be appropriate for the forum. Its simpler to say the states are too different to be comparable.

[MBGuy]

Thank you, you proved my point.

I'd say we also restrict how we practice religion in this state, as Baptists are the majority. And let's go ahead and abolish alcohol, it just causes so many problems.

Amazing....I didn't know the whole state of Texas was "metropolitan". Wow, what I've been missing....

Oh, and by the way, I OC'd in Louisville. Not quite Houston, but "metropolitan" nevertheless. No one freaked out.

[Purplehood]

Thank you, you proved my point.

I'd say we also restrict how we practice religion in this state, as Baptists are the majority. And let's go ahead and abolish alcohol, it just causes so many problems.

Amazing....I didn't know the whole state of Texas was "metropolitan". Wow, what I've been missing....

Oh, and by the way, I OC'd in Louisville. Not quite Houston, but "metropolitan" nevertheless. No one freaked out.

I think you misread his post. He stated the "Metropolitan areas of Texas". He didn't say that Texas is a metropolitan state.

[frazzled]

Purplehood is right. if you see my previous posts I think we're on the same page in rural areas. In metro areas I see a flood of restrictive signs and/or cops being called. What is appropriate in farm country is not appropriate in the Houston Central Business District (and vice versa).

[chabouk]

Purplehood is right. if you see my previous posts I think we're on the same page in rural areas. In metro areas I see a flood of restrictive signs and/or cops being called. What is appropriate in farm country is not appropriate in the Houston Central Business District (and vice versa).

Yet the law treats them the same, and those of us in rural areas are restricted based on what might give offense in Houston or DFW.

Edit to add: The three largest metropolitan areas (MSAs, not just the core cities) barely add up to half the population of Texas.

[Oldgringo]

Purplehood is right. if you see my previous posts I think we're on the same page in rural areas. In metro areas I see a flood of restrictive signs and/or cops being called. What is appropriate in farm country is not appropriate in the Houston Central Business District (and vice versa).

Yet the law treats them the same, and those of us in rural areas are restricted based on what might give offense in Houston or DFW.

Edit to add: The three largest metropolitan areas (MSAs, not just the core cities) barely add up to half the population of Texas.

I have a dream (sound familiar).

Let's do what Colorado, an OC state, has done. Allow statewide OC and let the metro areas (Dallas, Houston, Austin, et al) opt out and deny OC within the city boundaries.

If my plan is made into law, the occupants of rural areas (where a gun is not usually needed) are allowed to OC. In the metro areas (where a gun may be needed) OC is not allowed. Now then, everyone is happy and we have an OC state. Is this a great state in a great country or what?

Great idea, OG! Let's do it! You da' man!

[SA-TX]

I have a dream (sound familiar).

Let's do what Colorado, an OC state, has done. Allow statewide OC and let the metro areas (Dallas, Houston, Austin, et al) opt out and deny OC within the city boundaries.

If my plan is made into law, the occupants of rural areas (where a gun is not usually needed) are allowed to OC. In the metro areas (where a gun may be needed) OC is not allowed. Now then, everyone is happy and we have an OC state. Is this a great state in a great country or what?

Great idea, OG! Let's do it! You da' man!

It should be noted that the Colorado Legislature didn't set out to have it this way. Denver was lucky to get a tie vote in their Supreme Court keeping the underlying decision favoring them intact. If we are going to propose Texas learning from another state, I'd propose Pennsylvania. There you can OC without a license throughout the state except in Philadelphia. There you can do so only with an LTCF.

Your idea about rural vs. urban worth considering. Several other things make it through the Legislature exactly this way (there are population figures written into the statute). The downside is that you have folks who might not know the difference and wander into a non-OC area. Perhaps penalty in non-OC areas should be a Class C misdomeanor, fine only, so that someone's CHL isn't jeopardized. Even though I live in Dallas County and thus would certainly be in a non-OC zone, I think it is worth discussing. That will give Texas some actual experience and I'm confident would prove that a) OC is rarely practiced and b) when it is, nothing bad happens.

Charles, how about it? Say, a county population of 500,000 or more and Class C w/fine only punishment for violators? That would apply to, roughly, the 4 major D/FW counties, 2 in the Greater Houston area, San Antonio, Austin, El Paso, and Brownsville/South Padre. Sounds about right to me.

Data extracted by Texas State Library and Archives Commission, Reference/Documents staff from
http://www.census.gov/popest/counties/t ... -01-48.xls" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Suggested Original Source Citation:
Table 1: Annual Estimates of the Population for Counties of Texas: April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2007 (CO-EST2007-2007-01-48)
Source: Population Division, U.S. Census Bureau
Release Date: March 20, 2008

COUNTY POPULATION
Harris 3,935,855
Dallas 2,366,511
Tarrant 1,717,435
Bexar 1,594,493
Travis 974,365
El Paso 734,669
Collin 730,690
Hidalgo 710,514
Denton 612,357
Fort Bend 509,822

[MBGuy]

Thank you, you proved my point.

I'd say we also restrict how we practice religion in this state, as Baptists are the majority. And let's go ahead and abolish alcohol, it just causes so many problems.

Amazing....I didn't know the whole state of Texas was "metropolitan". Wow, what I've been missing....

Oh, and by the way, I OC'd in Louisville. Not quite Houston, but "metropolitan" nevertheless. No one freaked out.

I think you misread his post. He stated the "Metropolitan areas of Texas". He didn't say that Texas is a metropolitan state.

I just didn't write it correctly. My sentiment was that we shouldn't restrict freedoms to all because of one subset of the population. My bad.

And apologies to all for coming across a bit brash, I was not having a good day yesterday. My thoughts still stand, buy I lacked tact. Sorry...

[DaMonsta]

I just didn't write it correctly. My sentiment was that we shouldn't restrict freedoms to all because of one subset of the population. My bad.

And apologies to all for coming across a bit brash, I was not having a good day yesterday. My thoughts still stand, buy I lacked tact. Sorry...

While I am all for freedoms, I do not believe OC is necessary. If OC is passed, I would not be against it but people who deny that it causes disturbances are being naive. My roommate from college lives in GA and he OC's every now and then, he's had the cops called on him numerous times and he lives in a very rural area.

I just hate to see our LEOs wasting time investigating CHLs when they should be looking for the BGs.

[nitrogen]

I just hate to see our LEOs wasting time investigating CHLs when they should be looking for the BGs.

Police officers should never be wasting time hassling people that are not breaking any laws.

[casingpoint]

I do not believe OC is necessary

While once commonplace, OC is no longer so in Texas, being illegal. The current custom of concealed carry may well establish the legal standard today.

Citing SCOTUS in Heller, such things may determined by custom:
"Whatever the reason, handguns are the most popular weapon chosen by Americans for self-defense in the home, and a complete prohibition of their use is invalid."

Whether the right to concealed carry can be regulated is another issue which the SCOTUS did not address in depth beyond banning carry by crazies and in certain critical public places and government buildings.

[roberts]

I have OC'd in Louisiana and Kentucky. No on pays attention. Amazing, having grown accustomed to "hiding" it, like it's something to be ashamed of, only to find out that no one even notices. It's quite refreshing to be able to tuck in your shirt when you want to look presentable, with tight Wranglers, and still have options on how to carry.

We had this discussion during the last legislative session and the opponents of open carry did a good job convincing me Texas is pro gay enough to accept open homosexuality but not pro gun enough to accept open carry. Some rights are more popular than others.