Game warden when asked for fishing license

[Sigfan]

So say you are on a canoe trip going down the river. You have a CHL, and there is a pistol in your waterproof clothes bag as you pass by a checkpoint. They wave you over and ask to see your fishing license. You give them your fishing license, they look at it and say have a nice day. You get back in your canoe and head downriver. Did you break the law at any time during this?

Does asking for a fishing license constitute asking for ID?

And does having a pistol in your bag that is in the canoe and not on your person, still constitute concealed carry?

Thanks!

[KD5NRH]

Does asking for a fishing license constitute asking for ID?

IIRC, hunting and fishing licenses are technically not valid unless accompanied by a valid photo ID, so yes, it would.

[Medino]

And does having a pistol in your bag that is in the canoe and not on your person, still constitute concealed carry?

Think of the canoe like your vehicle it should be the same thing but I am not 100% sure.

[Sigfan]

Does asking for a fishing license constitute asking for ID?

IIRC, hunting and fishing licenses are technically not valid unless accompanied by a valid photo ID, so yes, it would.

None of us were asked for a photo ID, they just asked for a fishing license. Had they asked for a photo ID as well, that would have cleared up the issue.

I figure next time someone asks to see my fishing license, I will ask them if they need ID as well.

[cowboymd]

Are you on COE property? No carrying on Corp property unless for legal hunting or fishing purposes.

[joe817]

So say you are on a canoe trip going down the river. You have a CHL, and there is a pistol in your waterproof clothes bag as you pass by a checkpoint. They wave you over and ask to see your fishing license. You give them your fishing license, they look at it and say have a nice day. You get back in your canoe and head downriver. Did you break the law at any time during this? Does asking for a fishing license constitute asking for ID? And does having a pistol in your bag that is in the canoe and not on your person, still constitute concealed carry? Thanks!

Sigfan, you pose some interesting questions. I'm no attorney for sure, and not yet even a CHL holder. Plus I find the law confusing, so take my opinion with a big grain of salt.

1. "Does asking for a fishing license constitute asking for ID?" I'd say so since a fishing license is a form of id. And since you are a CHL holder, I'd also think it would be in your best interests to show them your CHL as well(for now at least until the law changes as of Sep.01, as I understand it.)

2. "And does having a pistol in your bag that is in the canoe and not on your person, still constitute concealed carry?" I'd say so, yes as it is "about" your person. It doesn't have to necessarily be on your person.
"3. You get back in your canoe and head downriver. Did you break the law at any time during this? " I find this the most confusing of all.

My answer? Yes, no or maybe. I would think it depends on who controls the waterway that your boat is in. Eg: on lakes controlled by the Army Corps of Engineers, you'd be in violation of concealed carry since it is prohibited(as I understand it). Lakes have been talked about in length, so it depends on who owns/controls/operates that lake. I would think the same applies to rivers as well.

Finally, I ask: is a game warden either a peace officer or magistrate? I honestly don't know for sure. I really don't. The more I learn about CHL the more I realize how ignorant of the laws I really am. It's a little discouraging to be honest with you.

If they are a magistrate or peace officer then I'm sure this comes into play:

Sec. 411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section 411.187.

(b) A person commits an offense if the person fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by Subsection (a) after previously having had the person's license suspended for a violation of that subsection. An offense under this subsection is a Class B misdemeanor.

If I've said anything blatantly wrong and incorrect, please forgive me. I'm just trying to be pointed in the right direction.

Joe

[dicion]

Joe,

Then again, the penalty for not showing goes away in 2 months.. so with that in mind, it also changes the equation.

[joe817]

Joe, Then again, the penalty for not showing goes away in 2 months.. so with that in mind, it also changes the equation.

.

I agree dicion, but it's still in place for now. I thought I'd cover that base just to be sure. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Sigfan]

This was on the Brazos river, just down from the Possum Kingdom dam. So not COE property, I have carried at Possum Kingdom state park many times.

I am glad you posted the actual code:

Sec. 411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section 411.187.

Here is where I think we were in the clear not showing. According to part A, if they demand identification, the license holder displays both the drivers license and CHL. We were asked for a fishing license, but not once did they ask for (or demand) ID or a drivers license. Since they looked at our fishing licenses and never asked us for ID, I fail to see how if ID was not required, a CHL would have been required.

I haven't heard about the changes on Sept 1st, but I firmly believe in notifying law enforcment, and would do so even if not required if they asked to see my ID. I do not want a situation where an officer sees me print or something and confronts me at gun point. I believe its safer for everyone if they know you are legally carrying a firearm.

To be honest I didn't even think of giving him my CHL until after I had already given him my fishing license and he said I was good to go. Had he asked me for my ID, I would have given my CHL without a second thought since I keep it right behind my license.

Thanks for the replies. It was something a friend and I were discussing after we got back in the canoe and heading down river and we were not sure if we had just done something wrong or not.

[StewNTexas]

Yeah, but were you fishing? Did you have rods & reels clearly visible? Maybe you were just enjoying the cool breeze on the water. This is one thing not mentioned.

If you were fishing, or had fishing gear available, I would understand their asking for your fishing license. Otherwise, no.

[dicion]

I haven't heard about the changes on Sept 1st, but I firmly believe in notifying law enforcment, and would do so even if not required if they asked to see my ID. I do not want a situation where an officer sees me print or something and confronts me at gun point. I believe its safer for everyone if they know you are legally carrying a firearm.

Ah, but would you volunteer this information if you did NOT have a CHL, and instead were carrying under the MPA?

I, personally, would not, unless directly asked 'are you carrying a weapon/firearm in your vehicle?' or, if I needed to access something that would clearly display it. Eg, Insurance in the glovebox, under the ,45

[joe817]

To satisfy my own curiosity about concealed handgun carry on all waters controlled by the Brazos River Authority, I made 2 phone calls to them and wound up at the ranger station at the PK office. Talked to a knowledgeable and nice park ranger, who told me that concealed carry is not prohibited while carrying on B.R.A. waterways and lakes. He did say "be sure to tell your friend to have his CHL on him while fishing though, if he's carrying".

http://www.brazos.org/default.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (just fyi)

[AWB09]

What is someone isn't fishing and doesn't have a fishing license. Do they have to show their papers, comrade?

[Sigfan]

Yeah, but were you fishing? Did you have rods & reels clearly visible? Maybe you were just enjoying the cool breeze on the water. This is one thing not mentioned.

If you were fishing, or had fishing gear available, I would understand their asking for your fishing license. Otherwise, no.

Yes we had rods clearly visable. They seemed to be stopping everyone though rather they had fishing gear showing or not. Being it was the 4th of July they were most likely checking for underage drinking (the people stopped when we got there looked to be younger), and anything else they could think of. They made sure we had life vests etc, but did not hassle us in any way. If we hadn't had rods, I am not sure what they would have asked us.

Fishing without a license would result in a fine. I got my fishing license the day before just for the trip, along with a cheap rod. And didn't fish once. haha

Good info Joe. I knew it was legal to carry, just wasn't sure about if a fishing license was considered ID. I doubt I could use it to get into a bar, or as ID at a bank since there is not a picture on it. It might be that its common for them to check a license against an ID and for whatever reason they didn't on this occasion. I have only had a fishing license for 4 days, and only been checked the one time. Has anyone else been checked? And did they ask for ID along with the license?

[LaserTex]

I have been checked before, and was always asked for my driver's license or ID and fishing license. I have family in San Angelo and we fish the river downtown. Game Warden patrols daily so it became easy. Last time was in April. I showed both CHL and DL with license. He nodded and thanked us and walked on down the river.

Doug