Prior to Having License in Hand....

[USA1]

I specifically joined this forum tonight to talk about this issue. Imagine my surprise to find a thread already.

I took my CHL class about six weeks ago. I checked online this past Friday, and my status was still pending. Tonight, on my way home from picking up my son from daycare, I was pulled over in Plano. The officer informed me that he pulled me over for having no front license plate. At least 20% of the cars in Plano don't have front license plates, and it's not checked during state inspection, so...well that's another story I guess.

Anyway, the officer goes back to his car to check my license. When he got back, he asked me if I had a concealed weapon in the car. I told him that I did, and I was politely asked to exit the vehicle with my hands visible. No problem. He then asks me why I didn't provide him with my CHL and inform him that I was carrying. According to his computer, I have an active license. I told him that I hadn't received the license yet, and that I didn't even know that I had been approved. He didn't care, and he informed me that he was filing a report with DPS about my "violation" and that I would have to take it up with them to clear up the matter. I was shocked. I asked him what I should have done. Don't I have the right to have a concealed weapon in my car without a license? He said the violation wasn't the weapon, it was not providing the CHL. He acknowledged that IF I was telling the truth, then there is a loophole in the system. And that's not his problem.

What am I supposed to do now? Am I going to lose my license before I ever even get it? I am so upset. I played by the rules and did everything that I was supposed to do. And now if feel like I'm being punished for it. This feels a lot more like gun registration.

i hope that you will keep us posted on the outcome of this situation,i am interested to know how this plays out.
we all hope for the best result for you...good luck

[Budge]

Thank you for all of your help.

I just spoke with the DPS (I called them). After explaining the situation, they told me what will happen:
1. The officer will file a report with them and send me a copy to my home address, notifying me and the DPS of his citation.
2. The DPS will forward the citation, along with the officers written comments, to a legal review board.
3. I will be notified about where and when to appear to appeal the citation. If I win the appeal, then the citation is dropped, but a record will always be kept at the DPS (officers will NOT be able to see it during traffic stops). If I lose the appeal, then I will lose my CHL for 90 days, and have only one more chance before I lose my CHL permanently and get a Class B Misdemeanor.

On a side note, the person I spoke with at the DPS said that my CHL approval was issued on May 1st. The traffic stop occurred on May 5th. According to the DPS, it takes 7-10 business days from the time the approval is granted to receive your CHL in the mail.

I was told that I could request a copy of my CHL record, showing the approval date. If I can get ahold of the officer before he submits his citation to the DPS and show him that I was not lying, maybe he can see his way clear not to submit it at all.

[USA1]

i find this situation disturbing...i will no longer carry in my vehicle until my card arrives so that i can avoid the same situation.

[USA1]

personally, if i were that officer, i would have given you a warning of some kind....after all, you were honest with him right off the bat.

[dimbulb]

Wow. This was exactly my concern when I started this post. We all try so hard to abide by the law and do the right thing. Really unfortunate that fellow 'packers' are having this kind of trouble.

I guess since there is no 'public' way to view your dps records you have no real way of knowing what the trooper sees when they pull you over.

Maybe its a good suggestion for their website (dps chl site) to also disclose that since you are now active, that LEO's will see this when they have to look you up. Might help prevent some of these issues in the future. Then again, if its already ok to have a gun in your car, really, what is the need?

Round and round we go....

[FlynJay]

Thank you for all of your help.

I just spoke with the DPS (I called them). After explaining the situation, they told me what will happen:
1. The officer will file a report with them and send me a copy to my home address, notifying me and the DPS of his citation.
2. The DPS will forward the citation, along with the officers written comments, to a legal review board.
3. I will be notified about where and when to appear to appeal the citation. If I win the appeal, then the citation is dropped, but a record will always be kept at the DPS (officers will NOT be able to see it during traffic stops). If I lose the appeal, then I will lose my CHL for 90 days, and have only one more chance before I lose my CHL permanently and get a Class B Misdemeanor.

On a side note, the person I spoke with at the DPS said that my CHL approval was issued on May 1st. The traffic stop occurred on May 5th. According to the DPS, it takes 7-10 business days from the time the approval is granted to receive your CHL in the mail.

I was told that I could request a copy of my CHL record, showing the approval date. If I can get ahold of the officer before he submits his citation to the DPS and show him that I was not lying, maybe he can see his way clear not to submit it at all.

See if you can contact the officer's supervisor. Calmly explain the situation with the dates that DPS gave you. He may be able to stop the citation from ever being submitted. If not you are heading to a hearing where there will be a permanant mark on your record.

Also, when you recieve your license in the mail. Check the postmarked date on the envelope and be sure to keep the envelope. Since the license was issued on the 1st, good bet it either hasn't been mailed yet or was mailed on the 4th or the 5th, which will be evident by the postmark.

[Keith B]

Thank you for all of your help.

I just spoke with the DPS (I called them). After explaining the situation, they told me what will happen:
1. The officer will file a report with them and send me a copy to my home address, notifying me and the DPS of his citation.
2. The DPS will forward the citation, along with the officers written comments, to a legal review board.
3. I will be notified about where and when to appear to appeal the citation. If I win the appeal, then the citation is dropped, but a record will always be kept at the DPS (officers will NOT be able to see it during traffic stops). If I lose the appeal, then I will lose my CHL for 90 days, and have only one more chance before I lose my CHL permanently and get a Class B Misdemeanor.

On a side note, the person I spoke with at the DPS said that my CHL approval was issued on May 1st. The traffic stop occurred on May 5th. According to the DPS, it takes 7-10 business days from the time the approval is granted to receive your CHL in the mail.

I was told that I could request a copy of my CHL record, showing the approval date. If I can get ahold of the officer before he submits his citation to the DPS and show him that I was not lying, maybe he can see his way clear not to submit it at all.

See if you can contact the officer's supervisor. Calmly explain the situation with the dates that DPS gave you. He may be able to stop the citation from ever being submitted. If not you are heading to a hearing where there will be a permanant mark on your record.

Also, when you recieve your license in the mail. Check the postmarked date on the envelope and be sure to keep the envelope. Since the license was issued on the 1st, good bet it either hasn't been mailed yet or was mailed on the 4th or the 5th, which will be evident by the postmark.

Being proactive will maybe stop the issuance of a citation. Kind of like providing proof of insurance when you were stopped and didn't have it in the car; they will stop the ticket.
When you talk to the supervisor, offer to provide them confirmation from DPS of the date it was approved. I am sure they can email or fax something to you.

Good luck and let us know how this turns out!

[cbr600]

Why can't DPS do the math and realize it's a bogus charge? They know better than anyone else when they mailed your license.

[FlynJay]

Why can't DPS do the math and realize it's a bogus charge? They know better than anyone else when they mailed your license.

It is not DPS's call to make. DPS can help by providing the correct documentation to help the cause but once the officer submits the citation there is a set process that is followed. I wouldn't have it any other way; it's called due process.

The officer has to show a preponderance of evidence that supports the suspension. The only evidence the officer has is that the license was not displayed, there was a concealed handgun in the car, and the OP was licensed to carry by DPS. The officer had no way on confirming the OP's statement that the plastic was still in the mail.

Contacting the officer and faxing proof of that fact should be all that is necessary to keep the officer from submitting the citation, if not or the officer has already submitted the citation, then there is a legal process that will be followed and I am fairly certain the OP will prevail.

[boomerang]

Why can't DPS do the math and realize it's a bogus charge? They know better than anyone else when they mailed your license.

It is not DPS's call to make.

It's not? Then who makes the decision whether or not to suspend the license?

[y5e06]

This is a very unfortunate situation I underestimated in my original post.
As for dates; the web said my app was complete on 2-May (saturday). I received my plastic today, 6-May. Aware of this thread, I checked the post mark and mine is stamped 5-May. So you very well may have received your citation before the envelope was even mailed. HTH's.

[ScottDLS]

Why can't DPS do the math and realize it's a bogus charge? They know better than anyone else when they mailed your license.

It is not DPS's call to make.

It's not? Then who makes the decision whether or not to suspend the license?

Well now... actually it's the Justice Court in the license holder's precinct of residence, as cited in an earlier post. Assuming he requests a hearing.

GC 411. I87. ...
...
(b)...The license holder may request that the justice court in
the justice court precinct in which the license holder resides review the
suspension as provided by Section 411.180. If a request is made for
the justice court to review the suspension and hold a hearing, the
license holder shall surrender the license on the date an order of
suspension is entered by the justice court....

I kind of hoped that prior to having a civil sanction applied, one would be entitled to some kind of judicial hearing. Sounds like the best place to explain the situation, assuming the person can spare the time and legal representation. It's really the 2nd time being a criminal offense that would drive me to request a hearing. But, that's me.

[boomerang]

Why can't DPS do the math and realize it's a bogus charge? They know better than anyone else when they mailed your license.

It is not DPS's call to make.

It's not? Then who makes the decision whether or not to suspend the license?

Well now... actually it's the Justice Court in the license holder's precinct of residence, as cited in an earlier post. Assuming he requests a hearing.

It looks like they review the suspension if he requests a hearing. However, for there to be a suspension to review, somebody had to make the decision to suspend the license. I think that's DPS but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

[FlynJay]

Why can't DPS do the math and realize it's a bogus charge? They know better than anyone else when they mailed your license.

It is not DPS's call to make.

It's not? Then who makes the decision whether or not to suspend the license?

Well now... actually it's the Justice Court in the license holder's precinct of residence, as cited in an earlier post. Assuming he requests a hearing.

It looks like they review the suspension if he requests a hearing. However, for there to be a suspension to review, somebody had to make the decision to suspend the license. I think that's DPS but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

The way I read it is; if the officer puts in the citation the license is suspended. The licensee can then request a hearing and counter the suspension in front of a judge.

[Budge]

The way I read it is; if the officer puts in the citation the license is suspended. The licensee can then request a hearing and counter the suspension in front of a judge.

According to the person in charge over at the DPS, my license wouldn't be suspended until after I LOST the appeal. The citation has to make it's way to the Court Justice, where both sides are presented and the decision is made. According to the DPS, once I receive my DHL, I can carry until my case has been reviewed by the Court Justice.