51% sign in a non 51% business

[Abraham]

Thanks again Keith.

As that sign DOESN'T pertain to us CHLers, I wonder why anyone would consider it in the same breath with signs that do pertain to us?

For my take, referring to it simply causes confusion i.e., me for one...

This sign, as far as I know, has no reason to be removed from any business if they so choose to use it as it refers to the UN-licensed - not us law abiding CHLers. It's not part of our equation, so to speak...

Or, am I missing something?

[Keith B]

Thanks again Keith.

As that sign DOESN'T pertain to us CHLers, I wonder why anyone would consider it in the same breath with signs that do pertain to us?

For my take, referring to it simply causes confusion i.e., me for one...

This sign, as far as I know, has no reason to be removed from any business if they so choose to use it as it refers to the UN-licensed - not us law abiding CHLers. It's not part of our equation, so to speak...

Or, am I missing something?

The sign=blue or sign=red is on the TABC license to tell the licensee which sign they are supposed to post per the law. The only sign that pertains to CHL's is the red one. Blue signs are not for us as it says 'Unlicensed' and we are 'licensed'.

Hope that clears it up.

[Abraham]

You're a wealth of patience Keith.

All cleared up and thank you.

[Kalrog]

You're a wealth of patience Keith.

All cleared up and thank you.

We have all been there - and it was patient people that helped us as well.

The reason that looking at the TABC license is important (and hence that Sign=Blue or Sign=Red thing) is that it is the TABC ruling that is important. Not the 51% sign. If a place without a TABC license or a TABC license that says Sign=Blue posts a 51% sign, then it is meaningless. Just like a place that has a TABC license with Sign=Red is off limits regardless of the presence of a 51% sign. So be sure to check the TABC license if you have any doubts. That is the controlling thing.

[ct214]

I spotted this sign the other day and Keith helped me find this thread... I say if they are a "blue" or don't sell any alcohol, then we DON'T report them and call it a day. My guess is that if they get the errant sign pulled by TABC, they will do the homework and put up the right signs... or (better case), this is an intentional mistake to allow CHL's to carry while pacifying someone at "corporate" (I like to give people the benefit of the doubt). A lot of kids eat there, and the more CHL's that are clear to go in, the safer we all are. After all... I like their burgers, and I'd hate to have to stop going there altogether.

[srothstein]

ct214,

If the signs are the TABC signs only, with no 30.06 sign, then they do not have a choice on which sign gets posted. The laws are specific on what they post and TABC will enforce the rules on it. If they are posting the 51% sign in lieu of trying to get a 30.06 sign, we can get the correct sign posted. Then there is a good chance they will let it drop since they still have a no guns without a permit sign. If they want to push it, the odds of them getting a valid 30.06 sign instead of some generic no guns sign are pretty bad.

[TxDrifter]

I was in a flea market near Corpus Christi that was a similar situation. This place was as big as an old Kmart or Walmart type store with multiple shops. After walking in it for a bit I finally found a tiny bar in the back. there is no way that they could be collecting 51% of their revenue from alcohol. I think the sign should have likely been posted by that booth rather than the entire building.

[y5e06]

So, assuming I happen on a place that I strongly suspect has the incorrect sign posted, showing red 51%. How do I go about looking at their license? Is this something they have framed and posted within the building? Or do "they" (businesses in general) keep it in some bookwork back in the office somewhere?
If they have the incorrect sign posted, and I go about asking the manager to see their liquir license, I would expect it could end up as strange conversation. who knows what political tendencies they may have, they could then ask you to leave even though they are a BLUE establishment, if they realize I'm inquiring for CHL purposes. Then again, I don't want to be causing a strange scene asking for the license when I show up w/ a group of people who are clueless that I'm totin' a roscoe.

thanks!

[Vic303]

I don't think TABC will do much anyways if you call them. They certainly did nothing when I called them to report an obviously FALSE 51% sign. You see, McKinney Med Center, (yeah the hospital side) has a 51% SIGN on their ER doors...I can guarantee you they are NOT earning 51% from the sale of alcohol for consumption on premises.

[Owens]

It's been a while back, but went to a bowling alley. There was a 51% sign at the main entrance. As it was a family get together, I reluctantly disarmed and went in. Next business day, I called TABC and reported what I believed to be an improperly posted sign. At first when talking to the receptionist or secretary that answered at TABC, her tone seemed to say so what. However, she took my information. What made me suspicious was the fact that EVRY lane was full (40) and many were waiting for lanes.

Drove by there a couple days ago and now their door bears an 'unlicensed possession of prohibited' sign. Reporting bad signs does work.

[srothstein]

Vic303,

TABC cares and will respond to reports of an improper sign on a licensed premise. The problem with reporting the bad sign at the hospital is that they do not have a license issued by TABC. So, TABC has no jurisdiction or authority over what signs they post.

Y5e06,

The law says their license must be posted where it is visible to the public. In theory, you should be able to see it, and if it is not clearly readable (say in view but behind the counter) you should be able to ask to read it. I have to admit that this does not always work and some places will argue with you about letting you see their license. In that case, report that to TABC also. They will get told about it and there is a good chance the agent will find something else wrong while there also. I am a firm believer that the people who obey the law will almost always do so, including posting properly and letting you see the sign. The people who try to skirt the law will do so in other ways also.

[TacShot]

I don't think TABC will do much anyways if you call them. They certainly did nothing when I called them to report an obviously FALSE 51% sign. You see, McKinney Med Center, (yeah the hospital side) has a 51% SIGN on their ER doors...I can guarantee you they are NOT earning 51% from the sale of alcohol for consumption on premises.

Is it really a 51% sign or the same sign without the 51%, that is required for hospitals by GC 411.204 NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES, Paragraph (b). This is the sign identifying the hospital as a place you cannot carry in PC 46.035 UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER, Paragraph (B)(4).

[Vic303]

I don't think TABC will do much anyways if you call them. They certainly did nothing when I called them to report an obviously FALSE 51% sign. You see, McKinney Med Center, (yeah the hospital side) has a 51% SIGN on their ER doors...I can guarantee you they are NOT earning 51% from the sale of alcohol for consumption on premises.

Is it really a 51% sign or the same sign without the 51%, that is required for hospitals by GC 411.204 NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES, Paragraph (b). This is the sign identifying the hospital as a place you cannot carry in PC 46.035 UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER, Paragraph (B)(4).

Without a copy of the sign you mention to look at I cannot tell, but since hospitals are no longer exclusively no-carry zones, unless properly marked with 30.06, it wouldn't matter. Now, just to be clear, Killer General does also post a proper 30.06 sign...

Next time I'm over that way I will try to get a pic of the doors with a cellphone.

[TacShot]

Vic303, I stand corrected. With the 2007 changes, It is a mute point without the 30.06.