ALERT: AMC Theaters have posted 30.06

[JohnKSa]

There are 3 signs posted on the bank of entry doors (maybe 5 or 6 double doors--so around 10 or 12 doors and only 3 signs). The signs appear to be about 8" tall, have at least some of the proper wording but I don't think they contained any Spanish. I didn't examine them closely for two reasons, the first being that they were posted at the very bottom of the door glass--about 6" off the ground.

It's possible they've been there some time, but today was the first time I noticed them. Then again, who looks at signs posted at shin-level...

<Update>
The signs do contain both Spanish & English but are FAR too small to conform to the lettering size specification. Also, I think it would be hard to make the case that posting them at the bottom of the doors qualifies as "displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public".

[ClarkLZeuss]

How about a little resurrection of an oldie but a goodie? I know I'm getting in this petition a little late, but I figured better late than never! Here's what I wrote to AMC. BTW does anyone know of any progress being made with them?

Ms. Bell,

My name is [Clark L. Zeuss], and I live in [my city], Texas.  I am a frequent customer of AMC theaters, in particular the one on [that street]. I've recently received a CHL (Concealed Handgun License) from the State of Texas, but then was alarmed to discover that my favorite theater forbids me entry while in the legal possession of my self-defense weapon.  I have since become aware that AMC has posted 30.06 signs at all their theaters (signs prohibiting a CHL from entering while in possession of their weapon).  To quote a statement of yours that I read online:

"We have put ‘no weapons’ signs up in all of our theaters across America," said Melanie Bell, the vice president of corporate communications for AMC. "We believe the movie theater is a place for families, and so we’re asking people not to bring weapons inside."
http://www.trentonian.com/articles/2006 ... 368103.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I applaud you for trying to make AMC a safe haven to enjoy good movies!  Since I usually go to movies late at night, I am particularly conscious of my own safety and that of others.  But what you don't understand is that, unfortunately, criminals do not care what you want.  (I define "criminals" here as people who unlawfully carry a concealed weapon without a license, especially those with criminal histories and/or criminal intent)  Criminals will do what they want to do, regardless of what signs you put up, regardless of what kind of atmosphere you want.  That's because criminals are not rational people who will respond in a compliant way to your rational requests.  Criminals follow only their own laws, not the laws of society and certainly not the laws of a movie theater, which is why they are criminals!  And criminals with guns are the threat here, not law-abiding, decent people who are licensed to carry a concealed weapon everywhere else in public, and who do so without incident.

If you are making it a policy to have no guns in your business, then you need to back up that policy with enforcement: metal detectors.  Because, again, a criminal could care less about your signs; he/she will still sneak in a gun, just like people sneak in snacks all the time, even though they know that outside food and drinks are forbidden.  You have to be realistic here.  A criminally-minded person is not going to voluntarily disarm simply because you've asked nicely.  They are not even allowed to carry guns in the first place without a license, and yet they do so anyway!  They are already risking heavy legal prosecution just by having a gun, yet they do it every day, everywhere else in society.  Do you really think that your signs are going to change their mind?  Again, you need to understand who the real enemy to peace is, and how they think.

If you are requiring me, a law-abiding, licensed carrier of a concealed weapon to leave that weapon in my car before I enter your establishment, then you have just placed my personal safety at risk from the moment I set foot in the parking lot, all the way into the theater, and back.  Normally, I take responsibility for my own safety, but now you have taken away that option, and so you must take that responsibility upon yourself.  Otherwise you have just put one of your own customers at risk, and high risk at that.  AMC managers have already acknowledged that "kids with guns" are in your theaters, and as any casual moviegoer knows, cars get broken into frequently at theaters, especially at night.  Since there is a well-established pattern of crime outside and inside theaters, and this pattern is known not only to patrons but management, therefore it is imperative that you do more to protect our safety, otherwise you deserve to lose our business.  You must provide safety for us in three forms: 1) Armed security personnel inside the theater.  2) Security checkpoints at all entrances, including - but not limited to - metal detectors.  3) Armed security patrols outside the theater and in the parking lots, who not only watch for criminal activity but also escort guests to/from vehicles.  Since you do not allow your customers to protect themselves, and if you do not provide at least these three basic elements of security, then you are denying a true safety to your patrons, putting them at great physical risk, and yourself at great legal risk.  Again, it is imperative that you differentiate between a false sense of security (signs) and a true presence of security (guards).

You need to understand a basic element to the world in which we live in.  There are only two ways in which to cause people to follow the law: persuasion and force.  Persuasion works only with rational people, but is ineffective on those who are already in rebellion to the law.  Therefore, force must be implied to guarntee compliance.  This is why people like myself made the difficult decision and invested the time, money and study necessary to obtain a concealed weapons permit.  We understand that there are many twisted people in our world who will only respond to force, people who if they threaten us with violence will not be dissuaded by mere words, people who must be stopped by a greater show of force.  This is our sole reason for obtaining this license and carrying a concealed weapon.  And we license holders are not a threat to your establishment.  The State of Texas has already entrusted us with the awesome power and heavy privilege of carrying a deadly weapon, for we have entered a very restrictive contract which stipulates extremely narrow circumstances in which a weapon may ever be used.  License holders are not criminals, otherwise we would never have obtained licenses in the first place, or would have had them revoked since.  License holders are decent people, just like we know you are.  We know your intent is to create a safe atmosphere in your business, and we have the utmost respect for that, since safety is also #1 in our minds.  We simply ask you to overturn your decision to post 30.06 signs, or else provide a true security barrier to crime as outlined above.  And anyway, don't you think that since the government gives this trust to us throughout the enormous geography of our great state, you should extend us a small bit of trust to encompass your theaters?  After all, I (and many others like myself) are trying to get this policy changed not through force, but by persuasion.  =)

Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,
[Clark L. Zeuss]
[my city]

[ClarkLZeuss]

whoops, just found out through an auto-responder that Melanie Bell no longer works for AMC. She probably went crazy from all of us gun-nuts bugging her! Anyone know who I should redirect my message to now?

[ralewis]

If they are non-compliant signs, why do anything? Maybe just go enjoy the movie and carry away......

[Purplehood]

ClarkLZeuss, that was an extremely well-written argument. I applaud your communication skills.

[ralewis]

I also agree it was a well written letter. Problem though is it's usually not really worth trying to convince anyone of the 'logic' or lack thereof of an anti-gun policy. I have very smart, reasonable friends who I've had this discussion with, and it all comes down to "i just don't like guns." The sign is bogus, so it's not a factor. If it was in fact a compliant sign, there may be a case to be made for telling management they are losing customers, but as it stands they are not. I fear theses sorts of activities only highlight the whole gun issue unecessarily and may have more of a backlash effect than get us anywhere.

A while back there were non-compliant signs at the Alamo Drafthouse Lake Creek location. I happily carried past them several times, then one day they were gone. I saw a thread here seemingly indicating that there was a write-in campaign responsible for that. It could very well have gone the other direction though with them ending up posting a compliant sign (after calculating that they'd be losing a small customer base, but perhaps appeasing a larger Austin liberal customer base). As it stands now, we have exactly what we had before there without the non-compliant sign. We could carry there before, and we can carry there now.

[barres]

Clark, that was a valiant effort. I do have one small nit to pick, though. Something that bugs me every time I see it written or hear it said.

Criminals couldn't care less about the signs AMC posts. If they could care less, then they obviously do care at least a little bit, and we know that that is not the case. They couldn't care less, because they absolutely, positively care zero, nada, zip, zilch. It would be impossible for them to care any less.

[off my soapbox]Other than that, it was a good letter. I'm sorry it didn't get to someone that works at AMC (who would probably just ignore it, unfortunately).[/off my soapbox]

[DoubleActionCHL]

I don't think these letters will have an effect. We have to be creative. What might have an effect is some form of protest. And yes, I know that conservatives don't engage in protests because we have jobs and responsibilities, but hear me out.

Let's say we gather a couple of hundred CHL holders armed with NO GUNS - NO MONEY cards. On a busy, high-dollar night, we line up at the ticket windows, move very slowly, engage in long, tedious conversations with the ticket clerk, then finally ask for 2 to 6 tickets to a predetermined movie. When asked to pay, say, "Uh Oh... you're posted 30.06. As a CHL holder, I refuse to spend my money at businesses that would disarm me." Hand him/her your 'card' and walk away.

This could be a fun night out a couple of times a month!

[Purplehood]

I don't think these letters will have an effect. We have to be creative. What might have an effect is some form of protest. And yes, I know that conservatives don't engage in protests because we have jobs and responsibilities, but hear me out.

Let's say we gather a couple of hundred CHL holders armed with NO GUNS - NO MONEY cards. On a busy, high-dollar night, we line up at the ticket windows, move very slowly, engage in long, tedious conversations with the ticket clerk, then finally ask for 2 to 6 tickets to a predetermined movie. When asked to pay, say, "Uh Oh... you're posted 30.06. As a CHL holder, I refuse to spend my money at businesses that would disarm me." Hand him/her your 'card' and walk away.

This could be a fun night out a couple of times a month!

I think that after a few minutes of that, you would seriously need to be armed.

[DoubleActionCHL]

I don't think these letters will have an effect. We have to be creative. What might have an effect is some form of protest. And yes, I know that conservatives don't engage in protests because we have jobs and responsibilities, but hear me out.

Let's say we gather a couple of hundred CHL holders armed with NO GUNS - NO MONEY cards. On a busy, high-dollar night, we line up at the ticket windows, move very slowly, engage in long, tedious conversations with the ticket clerk, then finally ask for 2 to 6 tickets to a predetermined movie. When asked to pay, say, "Uh Oh... you're posted 30.06. As a CHL holder, I refuse to spend my money at businesses that would disarm me." Hand him/her your 'card' and walk away.

This could be a fun night out a couple of times a month!

I think that after a few minutes of that, you would seriously need to be armed.

I believe all one hundred of us would be armed.

[gregthehand]

I don't think these letters will have an effect. We have to be creative. What might have an effect is some form of protest. And yes, I know that conservatives don't engage in protests because we have jobs and responsibilities, but hear me out.

Let's say we gather a couple of hundred CHL holders armed with NO GUNS - NO MONEY cards. On a busy, high-dollar night, we line up at the ticket windows, move very slowly, engage in long, tedious conversations with the ticket clerk, then finally ask for 2 to 6 tickets to a predetermined movie. When asked to pay, say, "Uh Oh... you're posted 30.06. As a CHL holder, I refuse to spend my money at businesses that would disarm me." Hand him/her your 'card' and walk away.

This could be a fun night out a couple of times a month!

I believe the kid behind the counter will just shrug and then throw the cards away on a busy night.

[DoubleActionCHL]

I believe the kid behind the counter will just shrug and then throw the cards away on a busy night.

Maybe. That's why it wouldn't have the desired effect unless we showed up in large numbers and had a noticeable impact on their sales that night.

[Rex B]

Pay for your ticket, then amble over to the door, read the sign carefully, then go back, ask for the manager, demand a refund.

"All 200 of us and our families are part of the local CHL fraternity, and we met here to go to the movie together. Would you happen to know where the next closest non-AMC move theatre might be?"

[Purplehood]

Pay for your ticket, then amble over to the door, read the sign carefully, then go back, ask for the manager, demand a refund.

"All 200 of us and our families are part of the local CHL fraternity, and we met here to go to the movie together. Would you happen to know where the next closest non-AMC move theatre might be?"

I always wanted to be a frat-brother.

[Rex B]

I think that would be interesting to do.
1 - everyone show up at a certain time and get a ticket immediately.
2 - gather on the sidewalk without entering
3 Once everyone is there with a ticket, start to go in, point out the sign
4 call for the manager, demand refunds for all
5 If you don't get the refund, give your tickets away to the people standing in line, along with a "No guns= no money card', or something like "AMC management will not allow me to provide for the safety of my family in their theatre, so I give this ticket to you with my compliments"
5a Possible the manager will remove the signs, at least for the night. If so, there might be some reasoning take place.