CHL in a public building that has a JP

[Aric]

Ok oh gurus of CHL knowledge. I went down to renew my car registration and I noticed that Potter County has posted 30.06 signs next to the door to the tax office (inside the building), next to the elevator, and next to the front door as you come into the building.
The only court I could find in the building is the JP court on the 11th floor and the County Judge also on the 11th floor. Can they prohibit concealed carry because of the courts on the 11th floor? Or is this all just a big old steaming pile of Bull Droppings (got to maintain the 11 y/o rule). I would just like some straight facts before I go and talk to the county commission (as if that would do any good since most of them don't follow the rules anyway, but that is a different story) but the county judge Arthur Ware seems to be a pretty good guy. He is a retired Marine. Thanks

[BigBlueDodge]

Yes they can. Even if they weren't posted as 30.06, the law says you cannot take your weapon "on the premises of any government court, or offices utilized by the court". Since "premise" is defined as "building or portion of a building", the question becomes where does the "portion of the building" under the court start. Is it only on their floor, does it start at the front door to tax office. Unfortunately you do not get to provide a answer to that question, because the building is posted 30.06 anyway. I think that Potter county is doing you a favor by posting 30.06, letting you know up front. Otherwise if no sign was posted, you might carry into the building and be breaking the law and never know it.

The law does not make distinctions between a civil court, criminal court, justice of the peace, etc. A court is a court, and if there is a court in the building you are prohibited from bringing your weapon into the building.

BTW, this should have been covered in your CHL class, as PC46.03 is a pretty important piece of law to know.

[Pinkycatcher]

The best part to look at is "or portions of a building" which means probably you would be legally fine, though I personally would tread carefully. IANAL though.

[BigBlueDodge]

The best part to look at is "or portions of a building" which means probably you would be legally fine, though I personally would tread carefully. IANAL though.

Are you serious? He's already stated that he counted THREE 30.06 signs posted in the building, and you think he would legally be fine to enter into that building?

[Aric]

You are right I did not enter the building carrying. I just wonder why the decided to put the signs up now. And these signs are big a lot bigger than 1 inch. In red on white. I just wanted to make sure that it was the whole building not just the portion. This is one of those really messed up areas. I think I will write a letter to my state senator (like it would do any good) but his a fellow CHL'r and a gun rights person. Thanks

[flb_78]

I think it's STUPID that I have to disarm to get a new windshield sticker because there's a courtroom 100 feet above my head.

[boomerang]

It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

[Aric]

Here is the email I sent to Kel Seliger, My state senator

Mr. Seliger, I am writing you today about the current CHL law. As you know CHL carry in a Court or court office is prohibited by TPC 46.03(a)(3). I actually agree with this law as guns do not belong in the possibly emotionally charged area of a court. But the problem lies in the way the law is written it says "on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court." This is a very confusing part of the law for those of us who go to extremes to make sure we do not break the law. Texas code define premise "as a building or part there of" which confuses us. Which is it the floor that the court is on or the whole building? Potter County has decided to post the whole Santa Fe building as 30.06. Now we both know a government entity cannot post 30.06. Yet this does not stop them from doing it. I would like to see if you can try to clarify the law. First make it statutorily illegal for a government entity to post a 30.06 sign as they legally cannot enforce it. 2nd make it so only the part of a building that the court room is in to be a no-go section for CHL'rs, This could be accomplished by signs informing this on the door of the courtroom and the door to the courtroom office. Thank you for your help and feel free to contact me if needed.

Will it do any good. Who knows but at least I can try.

[Aric]

I think it's STUPID that I have to disarm to get a new windshield sticker because there's a courtroom 100 feet above my head.

flb_78, since you are also in Amarillo if you want to you can email Kel also at

http://www.senate.state.tx.us/75r/senat ... dist31.htm

[battalion74]

I had the same situation occur to me in San Antonio (Bexar County). They don't have 30.06 signs posted, they have a Writ posted on the entrances to the building. I asked one of the county employees about it and she told me that CHL's are not allowed in the building because the Tax Assessors office was in the building. There were no courtrooms listed on the floor directory.
I later ran into a sheriff deputy a few days later and asked him about it. His response was that to his knowledge the law said that as long as the business posts that no CHL's are allowed, then its legal. I tried to explain to him that the County Tax Assessor is not a business, its a public office where their elected too. I also tried to explain to him that being that its a County office and has no Courtrooms, that they may be violating state law. In the end of the conversation, he was determined that the Tax Assessors office was a business.
The above was my understanding of the law when I took the class and renewal. If I misinterpreted it, please let me know. I'm guessing with other people's posts here, that the new bill to reword the law about courtrooms was not passed? The bill was going to reword the law to only not being able to enter a courtroom, but can enter the building. State legislators realized that county and municipal governments were adding courtrooms in buildings just to keep CHL's out, this was their remedy.

[Pinkycatcher]

The best part to look at is "or portions of a building" which means probably you would be legally fine, though I personally would tread carefully. IANAL though.

Are you serious? He's already stated that he counted THREE 30.06 signs posted in the building, and you think he would legally be fine to enter into that building?

Are you serious? It's a publicly owned building which means they can't post 30.06, and premises are defined as parts of a building. So yes he would be hassled to canada and back, but probably in the end if you don't have a horrible lawyer you would get off. So yes legally you would be fine, though it's not worth it.

[FlynJay]

Ok oh gurus of CHL knowledge. I went down to renew my car registration and I noticed that Potter County has posted 30.06 signs next to the door to the tax office (inside the building), next to the elevator, and next to the front door as you come into the building.
The only court I could find in the building is the JP court on the 11th floor and the County Judge also on the 11th floor. Can they prohibit concealed carry because of the courts on the 11th floor? Or is this all just a big old steaming pile of Bull Droppings (got to maintain the 11 y/o rule). I would just like some straight facts before I go and talk to the county commission (as if that would do any good since most of them don't follow the rules anyway, but that is a different story) but the county judge Arthur Ware seems to be a pretty good guy. He is a retired Marine. Thanks

Charles has a thread for cities improperly posting 30.06 signes. I recommend you post in that thread.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... ?f=7&t=188

[stevie_d_64]

When in doubt...Try to find a place other than this to renew your vehicle registration...That way it alieviates any heartburn...

The boundaries get to be too fuzzy for some people...

This is almost similar to a situation someone brought up a couple of years ago about the "public" library, and it (facility and premesis, or portion thereof) being used by a school for some event or school function...

Even though it is a public facility, its use (or a portion of it) by a school made for some really good discussion...I do not even think we came up with a clear solution...Most err'd on the side of caution...

Which is a rub I have had since I can remember about the law...

Why is there a perception that something awful is going to happen if one of us just happens to be in a school, a courtroom, or other facility while we are armed???

Can I see a show of hands of how many people here think that I or anyone else here will feel compelled (in places like that) to arbitrarily clear leather (or Kydex, etc etc) and go to work???

This is going to be good...

[Fangs]

I love to go to the playground and watch the children jumping up and down. They don't know I'm firing blanks. - Emo Philips