Carrying at work when not allowed..

[ElGato]

I can see how your instructor might believe this, but this is incorrect. I also suspect that a certain DPS attorney who believes "close is good enough" when it comes to the wording of a 30.06 sign might have expressed such an opinion in the instructor's school, but this is mere speculation on my part.

Heeheehee. Right on the money there!

We know that lady don't we TX, Charles is kind enough to listen to my rants about her and her interpretations.

Ms "democrat I don't like guns driving my hippy VW beetle" attorney. ;)

Yep.

[switch]

It is my understanding that most employers will simply fire you.

How can you charge someone with tresspassing if you are paying him to be there from 8 to 5?

I guess they could fire you and then charge you with tresspassing (like Robocop). I suspect most employers would not file criminal charges.

Personally, I think it is a dumb policy. If you are comfortable w/termination, I'd ignore it.

[AG-EE]

I agree with switch...if you are OK with termination, I would ignore it too.

I made the mistake of thinking that the powers that be at my corporation would be reasonable, and I asked only if I could keep it in my vehicle, as policy said no weapons allowed on property. By asking, that made them aware of it, and when we bought our new building they posted 30.06 signs at the parking lot entrances before they put up the company name on the building :(

So now I can't even have it in my vehicle, or it is a criminal penalty.

I would say don't ask, don't tell if it is not "30.06'd."

[switch]

I am not sure that a 30.06 sign would cover the parking lot.

Of course, it would apply to the employees but I suspect you would only be fired.

The test asks "business premises does not include parking lots, playgrounds or exterior walkways."

How far would you have to walk if you parked off premises? Probably be healthy for you too.

I know an auxiliary LEO that works for the USPO (armed guard, too) that has to park off the USPO parking lots.

[txinvestigator]

I am not sure that a 30.06 sign would cover the parking lot.

The do if they are posted at the entrances.

The test asks "business premises does not include parking lots, playgrounds or exterior walkways."

If you are referring to the CHL test, it refers to locations listed as prohibited under PC 46.03 and 46.035. Private businesses CAN make parking lots prohibited.

If I own a business (hey, I DO own a business) I set whatever policies I wish, within law. Employees know the policies when the agree to work for me. If they violate those, regardless of how silly they believe them to be, I WILL fire the employee. If that policy violation is also a violation of state law, I WILL file criminal charges.

I pay a fair wage; the person agrees to work for that pay within my guidlines. If he takes my money and does not operate within my guidlines, as far as I am concerned he is stealing his paycheck from me.

IMHO, if a person has a such a problem with his employers policies that he just cannot abide, then that employee has a moral obligation to cease working there.

[thatguyjosh]

A pharmacy 2 lights down from mine got robbed last night..

[one eyed fatman]

The do if they are posted at the entrances.

The do if they are posted at the entrances of the parking areas.

I fixed it for you txinvestigator.

[Kyle Brown]

As stated elsewhere/above, GC 411.203 Rights Of Employers allows the public or private employer authority to prohibit person who are licensed to carry a concealed handgun from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of the business.

I do not believe that a 30.06 sign posted at the enterance of a parking lot is effective notice to prohibit a person from leaving a gun in their car on said parking lot. This statute clearly states that a "license holder" has the meaning assigned by TPC 46.035(f).

Furthermore, TPC 46.035(f)(3) Unlawful Carrying Of Handgun By License Holder defines a premise as a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

I think that if a private sector business owner wants to control the possession of a weapon on the premises mentioned above (his parking lot), then notice must be given under TPC 36.05 Criminal Trespass which provides that an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor if the actor carries a deadly weapon on or about his person during the commission of the offense (criminal trespass).

Another way to look at it might be to ask yourself the question: "Could the City of Mayberry post a 30.06 sign at the enterence of the parking garage and thereby effectively give notice to employees and/or citizens that they are not allowed to leave handguns in their cars parked in the garage?" No, they could not. Likewise, neither could Floyd's barber shop.

[Kalrog]

Another way to look at it might be to ask yourself the question: "Could the City of Mayberry post a 30.06 sign at the enterence of the parking garage and thereby effectively give notice to employees and/or citizens that they are not allowed to leave handguns in their cars parked in the garage?" No, they could not. Likewise, neither could Floyd's barber shop.

I will let those more versed in the statutes respond with why it has become concensous that private entities can post a parking lot and bar you from carrying - but we have gone over that before and that was the conclusion. My response is that it is NOTHING like a city or other government agency blocking CCW. There are more restrictions on what governmental agencies can do in this matter than there are for private businesses.

[KBCraig]

I do not believe that a 30.06 sign posted at the enterance of a parking lot is effective notice to prohibit a person from leaving a gun in their car on said parking lot. This statute clearly states that a "license holder" has the meaning assigned by TPC 46.035(f).

Furthermore, TPC 46.035(f)(3) Unlawful Carrying Of Handgun By License Holder defines a premise as a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

A couple of important things here. First, the text of 46.035(f). Please pay attention to the part in bold:
(f) In this section:
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

Got it? The definition of "premises" in 46.035(f)(3) only applies in this section, meaning PC 46.035.

This is important because 46.035 (Unlawful carry of a handgun by a license holder) lists the places that are off limits by statute.

They are (paraphrased):
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a 51% TABC license;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital or nursing home;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

Those are the only places where "premises" is used in 46.035. Section 46.03 also uses the same definition. These are the only places in the entire Penal Code where the definition used in 46.035(f)(3) can be applied. It simply doesn't apply in arguments about trespassing and 30.06.

Kevin

[one eyed fatman]

on the premises of a hospital or nursing home

It's my understanding both of these places have to post signs to keep you from carring there

[Kalrog]

on the premises of a hospital or nursing home

It's my understanding both of these places have to post signs to keep you from carring there

That is true now, but it was not true when the CHL statute was first passed. It has been revised that most of the places that were automatically off limits are now required to post in order to be off limits. The following from that list must now post:

Hospital or nursing home
Amusement park
Church, ...

The others are still automatically off limits:

51% sign
sporting events
correctional facility

[txinvestigator]

The definition of premises that does not include only covers places listed in 46.03 and 46.035.

A private business NOT listed under 46.03 and 46.035 can post at parking lot entrances and legally prohibit carry there.

KBCraig 'splained it much better than I.

[Kyle Brown]

I do not believe that a 30.06 sign posted at the enterance of a parking lot is effective notice to prohibit a person from leaving a gun in their car on said parking lot. This statute clearly states that a "license holder" has the meaning assigned by TPC 46.035(f).

Furthermore, TPC 46.035(f)(3) Unlawful Carrying Of Handgun By License Holder defines a premise as a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

A couple of important things here. First, the text of 46.035(f). Please pay attention to the part in bold:
(f) In this section:
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

Got it? The definition of "premises" in 46.035(f)(3) only applies in this section, meaning PC 46.035.

This is important because 46.035 (Unlawful carry of a handgun by a license holder) lists the places that are off limits by statute.

They are (paraphrased):
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a 51% TABC license;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital or nursing home;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

Those are the only places where "premises" is used in 46.035. Section 46.03 also uses the same definition. These are the only places in the entire Penal Code where the definition used in 46.035(f)(3) can be applied. It simply doesn't apply in arguments about trespassing and 30.06.

Kevin

Gosh Kevin, the word "only" is very big...Your response brings to mind several questions but let me start with two if you have time..

First, where would I find the definition of "persons" and "premises" as used in GC 411.204 wherein employers may prohibit persons who are licensed under this chapter from carrying a concealed handgun on the "premises" of the business.

Second, I suppose you realize that PC 30.06 defines "license holder" defined in PC 46.035(f) which is exactly where "premise" is defined.

Thanks for your patience.

Kyle

[txinvestigator]

I do not believe that a 30.06 sign posted at the enterance of a parking lot is effective notice to prohibit a person from leaving a gun in their car on said parking lot. This statute clearly states that a "license holder" has the meaning assigned by TPC 46.035(f).

Furthermore, TPC 46.035(f)(3) Unlawful Carrying Of Handgun By License Holder defines a premise as a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

A couple of important things here. First, the text of 46.035(f). Please pay attention to the part in bold:
(f) In this section:
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

Got it? The definition of "premises" in 46.035(f)(3) only applies in this section, meaning PC 46.035.

This is important because 46.035 (Unlawful carry of a handgun by a license holder) lists the places that are off limits by statute.

They are (paraphrased):
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a 51% TABC license;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital or nursing home;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

Those are the only places where "premises" is used in 46.035. Section 46.03 also uses the same definition. These are the only places in the entire Penal Code where the definition used in 46.035(f)(3) can be applied. It simply doesn't apply in arguments about trespassing and 30.06.

Kevin

Gosh Kevin, the word "only" is very big...Your response brings to mind several questions but let me start with two if you have time..

First, where would I find the definition of "persons" and "premises" as used in GC 411.204 wherein employers may prohibit persons who are licensed under this chapter from carrying a concealed handgun on the "premises" of the business.

Second, I suppose you realize that PC 30.06 defines "license holder" defined in PC 46.035(f) which is exactly where "premise" is defined.

Thanks for your patience.

Kyle

If the code does not specify a definition, then the common or dictionary defintion is used.

As to your second question, 30.06 refers to the defintion of license holder as in 46.035. It does not refer to the 46.035 definition of premises; therefore, it does not use that definition.