Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

[KBCraig]

I know it is posted here elsewhere but just to confirm: San Antonio International airport (Terminal 2) has a very legal 30.06 notice posted at all the main entrances coming from the parking lot and well outside the secure area of the airport. Did a little research and the San Antonio airport web site clearly indicates the airport is OWNED and OPERATED by the city of San Antonio.

Then it's not a "very legal 30.06 notice".

It's not illegal, it's just irrelevant on city-owned property.

[Rex B]

Hopefully TSRA will contact them.

[NcongruNt]

There is a post in the forum regarding a New Braunfels city ordinance regarding carry in their libraries:

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =7&t=17302

From the posts, it appears that this was a pre-2003 ordinance, so if someone in the know wants to bump the city council to get rid of some outdated and erroneous local legislation to be compliant with state law, this one's for you.

As cities cannot pre-empt state law regarding firearms, perhaps an open records request would be in order.

[kidder014]

Might be interesting to note, but last time I checked, the city of Plano Municipal courts and Police Department still had 30.06 signs posted on the back entrances, which I think might be employee only entrances. The signs seem to have been removed from all of the public entrances out front though.

[Jesse1911]

City of Corpus Christi/Nueces County Health Department building off of Greenwood has 30.06 posted.

Wow!! First time I hear that there is a 30.06 sign here in Corpus. I have yet to see one for myself, and if only these type of buildings have them, I'll probably never encounter one

[red2000vette]

The Dallas County Tax Collector's office on Vally View Lane in Farmers Branch has a sign on their front door. It is a photocopy of a sign on "Texas Department of Emergency Management" letterhead. Clearly not a 30.06 sign. It lists a number of things that they don't want in the building, including "firearms". I asked the clerk if this applied to CHL holders and she said "everyone". I didn't argue with her but this has been bugging me all day. Do they need the 30.06 sign to bar CHL holders? If they don't have the proper signing am I OK to carry there. What's the story?

[seamusTX]

Under Texas state law, a 30.06 sign is not enforceable on property that is owned by a Texas government entity, except for meetings, which are defined by law (city council meetings, for example).

They can post any kind of sign they want. They can arrest you. The DA can prosecute you. You get to pay for your legal defense. The judge might be a moron. Happy day.

- Jim

[Pinkycatcher]

The Dallas County Tax Collector's office on Vally View Lane in Farmers Branch has a sign on their front door. It is a photocopy of a sign on "Texas Department of Emergency Management" letterhead. Clearly not a 30.06 sign. It lists a number of things that they don't want in the building, including "firearms". I asked the clerk if this applied to CHL holders and she said "everyone". I didn't argue with her but this has been bugging me all day. Do they need the 30.06 sign to bar CHL holders? If they don't have the proper signing am I OK to carry there. What's the story?

Pull out your Texas Penal Code book, and strut it around the office in my opinion

[Kerbouchard]

On another forum, somebody asked about a proper 30.06 sign being posted at the entrance to an apartment complex. It was my understanding that the 30.06 statute was not designed or able to enforce unlawful carry on ones premises and that a citizen's apartment was considered their premises. Does anybody have the statute handy that confirms that or disproves it? I'm on a fact checking mission.

Thanks,
Kerb.

[srothstein]

I am not sure where you heard that 30.06 does not apply or if it is how it does not apply.

The first part of the law that would show what you are asking is in chapter 46.02. Note that the law does not apply to your own premises. So, an apartment complex cannot prosecute you for carrying in your apartment. BUT, and I think this is a very important point, the law says your own premises or premises under your control. The common areas of the complex, such as the parking lot and hallways, are not your premises or under your control. If you are caught walking in the complex, you could be prosecuted under 30.06.

The easy way out for your own complex is that the law allows you to carry to your car (and by implication back from it). So you can carry in your apartment and in your car and to it. You cannot carry while walking around the complex (say to check the mail).

I would think the signs are directed at visitors more than at residents, but the complex is still wrong for posting them. If I want someone to not carry when he visits me, I will post it in my apartment. And the complex signs still do not apply to visitors in my apartment since it is under my control.

I think a good lawyer could beat any 30.06 charges on anyone caught in a properly posted complex unless the person was actually cught just walking around the common areas.

[SlowDave]

I have a question for the forum here. I went to the United Road Towing Vehicle Storage Facility (aka Growdon Vehicle Storage Facility) here in San Antonio. From their website and the SAPD's relevant webpage, it seems that this is a government facility that is managed by a private company. They had a sign that "This is a police facility" or something to that effect and then a non-30.06 "no guns allowed" sign (including the ghostbuster symbol).

Took me forever to see the relevant code is GC 411.207, dealing with the rights to carry into a police department building and the ability of the police to disarm a CHL holder. I would not consider the area a "nonpublic, secure portion" of anything, seeing as how you just open the door, walk in, and wait in line. And I don't think it really amounts to a "law enforcement facility" either. Without the research though, I was not sure and went back to the car and disarmed (other than my lockblade). Upon reading into this, it looks to me like this is not a binding sign, and that I could in fact, carry into this facility. I would appreciate others' opinions or clarification on this.

This was not a good situation. There are many shady characters hanging around the parking area, no policemen in sight, no metal detectors, and a general unsecured feeling. I did not take pictures of the signs as I was already afraid I may have raised suspicion by going back to my car and didn't want to raise any more. I'd also be interested in recommendations as to what I should do next. If I bring this up to the SAPD or the facility mgmt, do I risk educating them to put in the correct signage? Do you think this is a city-owned facility and therefore cannot be restricted and I should inform them to remove the signs?

Any help appreciated.

[Keith B]

I have a question for the forum here. I went to the United Road Towing Vehicle Storage Facility (aka Growdon Vehicle Storage Facility) here in San Antonio. From their website and the SAPD's relevant webpage, it seems that this is a government facility that is managed by a private company. They had a sign that "This is a police facility" or something to that effect and then a non-30.06 "no guns allowed" sign (including the ghostbuster symbol).

Took me forever to see the relevant code is GC 411.207, dealing with the rights to carry into a police department building and the ability of the police to disarm a CHL holder. I would not consider the area a "nonpublic, secure portion" of anything, seeing as how you just open the door, walk in, and wait in line. And I don't think it really amounts to a "law enforcement facility" either. Without the research though, I was not sure and went back to the car and disarmed (other than my lockblade). Upon reading into this, it looks to me like this is not a binding sign, and that I could in fact, carry into this facility. I would appreciate others' opinions or clarification on this.

This was not a good situation. There are many shady characters hanging around the parking area, no policemen in sight, no metal detectors, and a general unsecured feeling. I did not take pictures of the signs as I was already afraid I may have raised suspicion by going back to my car and didn't want to raise any more. I'd also be interested in recommendations as to what I should do next. If I bring this up to the SAPD or the facility mgmt, do I risk educating them to put in the correct signage? Do you think this is a city-owned facility and therefore cannot be restricted and I should inform them to remove the signs?

Any help appreciated.

IANAL, but my view is it is not the secured area of a police station, it did not have a valid 30.06 sign, so I would have carried with no reservation.

[SlowDave]

Unless there is a court in the city hall, the 30.06 signs are invalid. Governmental entities cannot post 30.06 signs on government owned/leased property.

Can someone give me the reference for this? I believe it, I'd just like to see it in some type of state document for myself and be able to prove it to others.

Thanks!

EDIT****
Found it. Sheesh, PC 30.06 (e) in case anyone else was wondering.

[srothstein]

Do you think this is a city-owned facility and therefore cannot be restricted and I should inform them to remove the signs?

Growdon Pound is owned by the City of San Antonio, as seen from the Bexar County Tax Appraisal District files. Of course, I thought it was when I because it was operated by SAPD officers when I was last there (1998) but I wanted to make sure.

And it cannot be a secure police facility since it is now operated and managed by someone who is not the police.

So, there are no correct signs and it is not enforceable for them to post ANY sign. That will not stop them from posting or telling you they can, or even arresting you and trying to enforce a sign. But it does mean they can not win in court if they prosecute you.

Unless you plan on going back there more often, I would suggest ignoring it and just remembering you can carry on city property except for the courts and the real secure areas of the police stations (of which there are very few).

[SlowDave]

Thanks srothstein. Good info (as usual on this board). I hadn't thought of checking tax records to find the official owner of the property. I think I agree. I think I'd be in a pretty strong position in court, being as
1a. The sign does not meet 30.06
1b. Even if it did, it is meaningless on city property
2a. It is not a law enforcement facility (this might be the hardest to prove)
2b. It is definitely not a "secure, non-public" portion of a law enforcement facility.

Of course, I'd rather not go to court, but if people are gonna go fight and die for my rights, I guess I can at least risk going to court.

So yeah, I likely only have to go back one more time and think I'll just carry. Will also try to go at a less risky time than Friday at dusk.

Thanks again!