Interesting 51% Sign

[Derf00]

I am not a fan of alerting businesses to incorretly posted signs, but on a recent trip to Fredericksburg, upon entering a liquor store on main street, I noticed a 51% sign. As hard as it was, I kept quite but noticed that aside form liquor, wine, and beer sales, they had a wine tasting area. I do not see how this could possibly be a correctly posted sign, does anyone else have any thoughts?

[WildBill]

It is interesting. Probably not correct, but interesting. Our TABC expert, Mr. Steve Rothstein will have an answer for you.

[TexCaboCat]

I am not a fan of alerting businesses to incorrectly posted signs, but on a recent trip to Fredericksburg, upon entering a liquor store on main street, I noticed a 51% sign. As hard as it was, I kept quite but noticed that aside form liquor, wine, and beer sales, they had a wine tasting area. I do not see how this could possibly be a correctly posted sign, does anyone else have any thoughts?

The 51% is only valid for consumption of alcohol not sales. So, liquor stores are not included as places we can not carry in. Bars and some restaurants are if they serve more than 51% liquor (consumed). Now, the wine tasting area might make a difference, but I have no idea.

[T3hK1w1]

Unless wine-tasting constituted over half their business income, then AFAIK the sign is not valid. Is the sign red or blue?

[srothstein]

The trick to this is to remember the exact wording of the law. It is illegal to carry in a place where more than 50% of the sales is from alcohol for consumption on premises as determined by TABC.

This is the real problem. The TABC application asks if for the breakdown of sales by alcohol, food, and other. It does not differentiate between alcohol for on premises or off premises consumption. As a general rule, this is not a problem since most places sell for one or the other. The bars that sell beer for off premises as well as on premises do not sell enough of the off premises to really make a difference. But, with the recent court rulings on wineries and how they can work, the business model they use and the business model TABC uses are not in sync anymore.

So, if the place is a winery and has a store of its own, it can sell for on and off premises consumption and the off premises amount might be enough to make a difference. But the TABC process does not yet allow for the difference and it makes the winery post a 51% sign, even if they would not do so under a stricter interpretation of the actual law.

For right now, this means that sign is legal and you cannot carry there.

The good news is that TABC is aware of this and other problems. They are in the process of completely redesigning the licensing procedures and computer software. I am confident that this is one of the things to be considered. The bad side of this is that I expect it to take about two years for the redesign to be complete and affecting actual licenses and signs. They cannot change the license application until they get the software for the computer redone, and that takes time.

[WildBill]

So, if the place is a winery and has a store of its own, it can sell for on and off premises consumption and the off premises amount might be enough to make a difference. But the TABC process does not yet allow for the difference and it makes the winery post a 51% sign, even if they would not do so under a stricter interpretation of the actual law.

For right now, this means that sign is legal and you cannot carry there.

Steve - Now I am really confused. The original post was a question about a liquor store, not a winery, but you are talking about court rulings and business models for wineries. Are you saying the 51% sign applies to any business that sells alcohol both on and off premise or only wineries?

[srothstein]

Sorry for the confusion Bill. The sign can apply to any business that sells for on and off premises consumption. The problem originally came about because of wineries, though it was always a possibility with beer only bars (many can sell for off premise also). The change in liquor stores came about due to wineries. Used to be a package store could only sell for off premise consumption. Wineries have changed a lot of the rules, such as allowing wine tastings anywhere. I have even seen a wine tasting in HEB now.

Also used to be that a manufacturer could not sell direct to the public, which wineries and micro-breweries changed. This si why it is long overdue for a complete rewrite of the Alcoholic Beverage Code. TABC can't rewrite the code, but we are going to try to modernize the process where we can control it.

[WildBill]

The change in liquor stores came about due to wineries. Used to be a package store could only sell for off premise consumption. Wineries have changed a lot of the rules, such as allowing wine tastings anywhere. I have even seen a wine tasting in HEB now.

I have seen "wine tastings" in liquor stores, but haven't seen it in HEB yet. Usually it's manufacturer's or distributor's reps serving, rather than employees of the store, but I have never seen anyone charging for the tasting.

It sounds like there needs to be some changes to the laws. IMO, if a winery makes more money in their tasting room than from off premise sales, they aren't going to stay in business for very long.

[Bart]

It sounds like any brewery tour that has a tasting afterward would be off limits too, even for the designated driver.

[Keith B]

It sounds like any brewery tour that has a tasting afterward would be off limits too, even for the designated driver.

Would the free tasting actually make it 51%? If it is not 'selling' the liquor for on site consumption, but giving free samples, then they are 100% off-site consumption sales.

Just another one of those gray areas no on thinks of when they draft a statute.

[Derf00]

The trick to this is to remember the exact wording of the law. It is illegal to carry in a place where more than 50% of the sales is from alcohol for consumption on premises as determined by TABC.

This is the whole point of the post, but just about the time you think you understand the law, something like this comes along. If the Wine tasting is free, and the and no other alcholice beverages can be consumed on the premises, how does this law apply?

[T3hK1w1]

I would comment that a glass of wine is probably enough to show up on a blood alcohol test, and is therefore a definite no-no while carrying.

[srothstein]

The trick to this is to remember the exact wording of the law. It is illegal to carry in a place where more than 50% of the sales is from alcohol for consumption on premises as determined by TABC.

This is the whole point of the post, but just about the time you think you understand the law, something like this comes along. If the Wine tasting is free, and the and no other alcholice beverages can be consumed on the premises, how does this law apply?

If the wine tasting is free, and there are no other on premises sales, then this law would not apply.

In that case, look at the license and see what the actual license says. Sign=Red means it is 51% and Sign=Blue means it si not.

[KBCraig]

I would comment that a glass of wine is probably enough to show up on a blood alcohol test, and is therefore a definite no-no while carrying.

The legal standard for carrying is that the licensee not be "intoxicated". A BAC detectable as >0.0 does not constitute "intoxicated".

[pedalman]

In that case, look at the license and see what the actual license says. Sign=Red means it is 51% and Sign=Blue means it si not.

Doesn't that make an uncomfortable situation when asking to see the license? A regular customer asking to see the license would appear to be telegraphing, "Hey!!!! I got a CHL!! I wanna see if I can pack my heater in your establishment."

How does one does this with finesse?