TXGLOCK29 wrote:...
Did I do the right thing, or would any of you have pulled your weapon? Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
I think you did the right thing because I would have done the same. Im not an easy target and in good shape and athletic so I probably wouldnt draw unless I saw a gun or another lethal weapon. I know I wouldnt draw until it was absolutely necessary. I guess thats because I know 99.9% of these situations WONT escalate into a crime.
txmatt wrote:With the type of people you described it probably wouldn't have made a difference, but telling them "that it would not be smart to threaten me and you don't know who you're talking to" sounds like a threat and could serve to escalate the situation.
no, I think that by him not responding at all, it shows fear which can trigger an attack IMHO. Also, he didn't "escalate" the situation, they did by threatening him. "you better watch out" is a direct threat in my book.
1. As others have said, it worked out OK, so by definition you did the right thing. It could have gone worse, but you can't take "could have" to the bank.
2. The OP, TXGLOCK29, was on private property that he controls (has the power to allow or deny access), and he was doing his job at the time. This is much different from a random encounter in a public place.
3. This was a typical gang turf expansion move. TXGLOCK29 had to win, and he did.
TXGLOCK29 wrote:He then informed me that he was going to "crack me upside the head." At that point I told him that it would not be smart to threaten me and you don't know who you're talking to. He then said "you don't know who you're talking to you cracker".
There was a couple of moments where he made physical advances while he was making his comments that made me nervous enough to want to draw my weapon,
as soon as they threatened him, could he have loaded them up with OC, and let them swim in that till the cops got there?
I don't think this would have been the best course of action, but is it an option.
question: The scenario as presented shows a disparity of force, 2 against 1. could he have legally laid them both out if they started making it appear as though they were going to "do something about it?"
I mean, two guys, talking trash (even though only one is verbalizing, the other one wasn't exactly trying to de-escalate) say things like those quoted above, and began advancing on someone, wouldn't that show an "imminent threat?"
The OP would have been legally justified, in principle, in using pepper spray against the individual that was trespassing (egregiously) and threatened to "crack his head."
One problem would be proving the justification. The two thugs might claim that they were "lost and asked for directions," and this white-robe-wearing bigot attacked them.
Another is that few people (including myself) are confident that they can deploy pepper spray effectively. You have to close to a risky distance to use it. Using it on the one who voiced the threat leaves the other to respond however he wants to.
As this incident shows, this kind of trash talk is often just a bluff. If the perpetrators sense that they do not have an easy victim, they back down.
First off, allow me to sincerely thank all of you for the input. It has all been very beneficial. Many of you really helped accelerate my learning curve. I also want to make it known that I did not use ANY racial slurs of any kind, even though he had no problem with doing that to me. I know I made a couple of mistakes yesterday with that confrontation, but it was my first time (and thankfully not my last time) and I have the wonderful opportunity to use this situation as a learning experience.
Just to add a couple of other details to the story, both of the men were around 5'10'' and in the neighborhood of 205lbs. The aggressor was mid 30's and the other man was mid 60's (may be a little slower, but last I checked, a 65 year-old man can still fire a weapon). I am 24, 6'1'', 215, and just 1 year removed from being a professional baseball player. While walking back to the office from the confrontation, I walked with my back to them, yet had my head turned toward them, watching their EVERY move. Also, I had my cell phone with me, and I was actually writing the vehicle description/License plate # in the notepad on my phone.
In hindsight, I should have stayed in my office to begin with and called the police, just giving them a description of the vehicle instead of walking up behind their vehicle and recording their license plate number. If I ever find myself in a potentially dangerous situation again, I will try to find a way to create more distance between myself and the BG, and be more aware of how my words could be preceived by the threatening party.
Once again, thank you all for all your input. I really do appreciate it, and will continue to read all of your thoughts to better educate myself, and hopefully some of the other readers on this blog.
You can pretty much expect this type of treatment from them the majority of the time. Most of them don't have any respect for anything, the cracker comment proves that.
No, they aren't scared of the LEO's. I have been in your situation before, and I've always called there bluff, its simply an intimidation tactic to scare people, but most people aren't scared of them.
Just for safety sake, I would inform Law Enforcement of the License Plate number just incase you do become a victim of Black Urban Terrorists who do Driveby shootings. You never know Pal...
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TXGLOCK29 wrote:Ok so here's what happened. I am in Real Estate, and we have a real problem with people who park in no parking zones in the community I manage. We also back up right next to what some people may call "The Ghetto." Well today, I show up and there is a van parked on our Home Owner's Association grass at the entrance where there is flowers, bushes, sodded lanscape, ect. I walked up behind the vehicle to write down the license plate number when two African-American males (owners of the vehicle) walk up behind the ledge to my right and ask "what do you think you're doing?" I responded "I am writing down your license plate number and the police have already been dispatched because you are parked in a no parking zone AS WELL AS on private grass." One of the men responded by saying "I ain't afraid of no Police!" I then told him "that may be the case, however, I don't think you want to pay $700 because your vehicle was ticketed and towed." Here's where things escalated...
He then informed me that he was going to "crack me upside the head." At that point I told him that it would not be smart to threaten me and you don't know who you're talking to. He then said "you don't know who you're talking to you cracker". I responded by saying "look sir, just move your car and have a nice day (while backing away)" and he said a "(few curse words) cracker, you better watch out!" They got in their vehicle and began to slowly follow me as I walked back to my office. I was praying that I wasn't going to be a victim of a driveby.
Luckily I got back to my office safely. After getting back inside I called the police department and informed them of everything that just happened. They had a detective call me and file a report. With all that said, yes I am a CHL, and yes I was carrying. There was a couple of moments where he made physical advances while he was making his comments that made me nervous enough to want to draw my weapon, however I didn't because he kept his hands where I could see them, he never got closer than about 5 feet, and the other man that was with him stayed back and didn't say a word. Did I do the right thing, or would any of you have pulled your weapon? Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
Briankey wrote:You can pretty much expect this type of treatment from them the majority of the time. Most of them don't have any respect for anything, the cracker comment proves that.
No, they aren't scared of the LEO's. I have been in your situation before, and I've always called there bluff, its simply an intimidation tactic to scare people, but most people aren't scared of them.
Just for safety sake, I would inform Law Enforcement of the License Plate number just incase you do become a victim of Black Urban Terrorists who do Driveby shootings. You never know Pal...
Please elaborate on who 'them' is! Parking violators? Gang members? Black Urban Terrorists?
There is absolutely nothing about this situation that couldn't have involved any race!
Briankey wrote:You can pretty much expect this type of treatment from them the majority of the time. Most of them don't have any respect for anything, the cracker comment proves that.
No, they aren't scared of the LEO's. I have been in your situation before, and I've always called there bluff, its simply an intimidation tactic to scare people, but most people aren't scared of them.
Just for safety sake, I would inform Law Enforcement of the License Plate number just incase you do become a victim of Black Urban Terrorists who do Driveby shootings. You never know Pal...
Please elaborate on who 'them' is! Parking violators? Gang members? Black Urban Terrorists?
There is absolutely nothing about this situation that couldn't have involved any race!
I resent the perceived racial implication!
I'm thinking (and hoping) he's just speaking of general thuggery. Trash comes in all colors, as do precious stones and metals.
"If a man breaks in your house, he ain't there for iced tea." Mom & Dad.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
Gentlemen stop arguing or we will lock the thread.
Back on topic please.
Carry 24-7 or guess right.
CHL Instructor. http://www.pdtraining.us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
NRA/TSRA Life Member - TFC Member #11
The Situation this Gentlemen found himself in speaks for itself. THEM, meaning Black Americans as the original post mentioned, Ghetto, as the original Post mentioned is just a fact of life. Black Urban Terrorist gangs Terrorize ghetto Neighborhoods, another fact of life.
For anyone to be upset over someones opinion on a forum board, says they don't have much to be upset over in life, High Gas Prices, crime, etc... So, people can be upset over anything they wish, doesn't bother me.
Why do people have CHL's anyway?.who are you Protecting yourself from?, I have one, don't mind telling you who I'm protecting myself from, Criminals, Blacks, Mexicans, whites. If you have a CHL, and your protecting yourself and family from those people I mentioned above, then you have a problem with the same "THEMS" as I mentioned above. And your questioning me.
Speaking for myself in the situation you bring up, Verbal Confrontation is never an excuse for drawing a weapon, I don't get mad at what someone says to me, in public or anywhere, Because I don't Care the Least bit. I find People amusing.
You never allow someone to run you so hot that you drawdown on them.
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G Wagner wrote:Another path to consider: Does a verbal confrontation, allow for use/display of a lethal weapon (i.e. gun)?
Interesting: The OP posted this same topic on another forum an hour after posting it here. I first read it over there where it is has now run to 7 pages. I replied on the other forum so will not comment further here except to say that he described the two men as mid 30s and mid 60s.
