Louis Farrakhan writes about Joe Horn

[DoubleJ]

I have a friend (who shall remain nameless) that is visiting Colombia. He had quite the eye-opening perspective on the country as a whole, and how things are down there.
here's a sampling of his observations from research and first hand accounts.

I know where the not-so-great parts of the city are and I will be avoiding them as best I can. I’m going to be carrying a dummy wallet (a wallet in my back pocket with a few $1 bills, monopoly money I printed off the internet, and those fake credit cards you get in the mail) wherever I go. I’m pretty much expecting to be robbed at knife or gunpoint at some point during this trip so my plan is to throw the wallet one way and run the other way.
At least five Americans were kidnapped in 2004, and at least one in 2005.
The concept of due process, shall we say, escapes the justice system there. Respect the police as if they are gods.
They have assassins on motorcycles, I forget the Spanish term, but from COP 40,000 to COP 100,000 you can have anyone shot. This is a reality in Colombia and Venezuela as well. So basically, my life is worth about $20 in Colombia as anyone can be marked for death for the Colombian equivalent of $20 - $50. In Medellin the people take care of themselves. The guy who causes problems is normally found dead. The authorities are told that he was a bad guy, and that is the end of it. Must have been a suicide. No crime.

yeah, so the Colombians crying for justice for a couple of bums that were commiting crimes doesn't exactly sit well with me...

[lawrnk]

I have a friend (who shall remain nameless) that is visiting Colombia. He had quite the eye-opening perspective on the country as a whole, and how things are down there.
here's a sampling of his observations from research and first hand accounts.

I know where the not-so-great parts of the city are and I will be avoiding them as best I can. I’m going to be carrying a dummy wallet (a wallet in my back pocket with a few $1 bills, monopoly money I printed off the internet, and those fake credit cards you get in the mail) wherever I go. I’m pretty much expecting to be robbed at knife or gunpoint at some point during this trip so my plan is to throw the wallet one way and run the other way.
At least five Americans were kidnapped in 2004, and at least one in 2005.
The concept of due process, shall we say, escapes the justice system there. Respect the police as if they are gods.
They have assassins on motorcycles, I forget the Spanish term, but from COP 40,000 to COP 100,000 you can have anyone shot. This is a reality in Colombia and Venezuela as well. So basically, my life is worth about $20 in Colombia as anyone can be marked for death for the Colombian equivalent of $20 - $50. In Medellin the people take care of themselves. The guy who causes problems is normally found dead. The authorities are told that he was a bad guy, and that is the end of it. Must have been a suicide. No crime.

yeah, so the Colombians crying for justice for a couple of bums that were commiting crimes doesn't exactly sit well with me...

Sadly, this is much of the world. I used to carry dummy wallets all over 5 continents. The only place scarier than columbia is maybe Brazil.

[Venus Pax]

Did Horn shoot the burglars in the back?
I thought I remembered reading that they were advancing on him.

[Liberty]

Did Horn shoot the burglars in the back?
I thought I remembered reading that they were advancing on him.

While initial reports were that one of the perps got shot in the front and the other in side. An autopsy report report later stated both perps were shot in the back. Apparently what was assumed to be entry wounds were exit wounds.
see http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22152984/

The autopsies showed the suspects were shot in the back. Police first thought the chest and side wounds were the bullets' entrances. Instead, police said, they were the exit wounds.

[DoubleJ]

to my reasoning, whether they were shot in the back, side, top, is inconsequential. they were still in the commission of the crime, until the point that they had "gotten away."
after that, it's back to the morality issue, but AFAIK, just because they turn their back to you, doesn't mean they get a free "Get Out of Getting Shot" card.
does, however, mean they were cowards....

[Mike1951]

There was an excellent illustration on the front page of Sunday's Houston Chronicle.

It was based on the information provided by the plains clothes officer parked out front.

The BG's were running toward the street in the shared area between the houses.

Both BG's came face to face with Horn as he stood in front of his house.

One ran past Horn across his yard, toward the street, attempting to escape.

The other turned and ran across the neighbor's yard, away from Horn.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 80759.html

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 82190.html

[Cipher]

Does it matter that they were shot in the back (other than looking worse than being shot in the chest)? According to 9.43 and 9.42 you can shot them if you reasonably feel there is no other way to have the property returned. You can pretty much surmise from Mr. Horn's conversation that that's exactly how he felt.

[Liberty]

Does it matter that they were shot in the back (other than looking worse than being shot in the chest)? According to 9.43 and 9.42 you can shot them if you reasonably feel there is no other way to have the property returned. You can pretty much surmise from Mr. Horn's conversation that that's exactly how he felt.

I have no qualms about the legality of it. I believe he should get off. Sometimes though there is a difference between what is right and what is legal There are lots of things that people do that are perfectly legal yet are immoral. I believe that folks should have the legal to defend their property, That doesn't mean that it is a good thing When some declares he is going to kill someone and shoot them in the back. He didn't have a dog in this fight and was a lookin' to do some killin'. A back shooter isn't someone I choose to admire, like, respect or appreciate. I for one will not fawn over, give money too, speak good words about or speak nicely about a backshooter. The only advice I have for Joe is to seek forgiveness from whom it matters.

Backbiters
Backstabbers
and Backshootters won't find me their fan club.

I do understand the desire to want to defend this guy, because it is a fundimental right that we should be able to defend our property. It is just as important to know when to call off the fight. In my opinion Joe used poor judgement.

[Cipher]

I agree, but I despise thieves even more.

IMO if more people reacted like Mr Horn - I'll even go as far to say if more people would just stand out in their front yard with the phone in their hands with 911 on the other end so the thieves could see them - crimes of this sort will drop significantly.

This mindset of staying indoors and/or not confronting these people really gets to me. While I have moral issues with shooting people in the back, I have bigger issues with people taking from hard working, upstanding citizens. The logic shouldn't be "life is worth more than property", the logic should be "when you decide to steal your life becomes worth less than the property you are stealing". It should be made very clear to thieves that we are watching them and they will be caught (or shot).

I don't have the numbers to back what I'm about to say up, but I would guess that law enforcement officers do not arrive in time to stop these crimes 9 times out of 10. I would also guess 7 times out of 10 the property is never seen again by the owner. Since it seems that Law Enforcement takes the stance of trying to solve the case AFTER the crime (and not preventing it, they are way to undermanned to do that) it's up to us to clean up the rift raft in our neighborhoods. I watch over my neighbors' houses all the time, permission or not, because that is the same place my kids play. I wouldn't have shot them while they were running away, but I would've been out side taking pictures/video with one hand (other hand on my weapon) and I would have made every attempt at stopping them once they set foot on MY property. I would have made it very clear that my neighborhood wasn't the place to be pulling of stunts like this.

I suspect if more people took that stance thieves would get the idea. But one thing is certain, neither one of those guys will ever have the chance to break into a possibly occupied home again.

[Dragonfighter]

I had a druggie neighbor across the street for a while. He was truly a nice guy and helpful, just a speed freak and dealer. Incongruous, I know. the first time he met me was looking down the barrel of my side arm. He and another fellow were taking measurements of my garage door to build one themselves. I never had a problem from him or any of his compadres, nor did my neighbor next to him or next door. Others in the area did. I am convinced that his having a very real understanding that I and mine went heeled and weren't afraid to use it; was a deterrent.

[boomerang]

Let me see if I have this right.

There was a group of people engaged in organized criminal activity.

The local police were unable (or unwilling?) to protect decent people from these criminals.

An American citizen called 911. When the police didn't arrive in time, he shot two foreign criminals in the act.

Instead of rounding up the rest of the foreign criminal gang, the cops want to prosecute some old guy who embarassed them.

[Liberty]

Instead of rounding up the rest of the foreign criminal gang, the cops want to prosecute some old guy who embarassed them.

I don't think this is true.
It might be, But I don't recall reading anything that indicates that the cops are wanting to prosecute anyone in this case. Everything that I've read seem to indicate that the Pasadena PD has kept pretty quiet about this case, and have treated this case properly. Is there something going on that we haven't read about? As I understand the Texas Rangers have been investigating this gang. I would imagine that as far as the gang prosecutions Pasadena can best cooperate by not taking the lead in this case, letting the Rangers take charge, while giving help as requested..

This case will go to a grand jury. All deadly shootings in Harris county go before a Grand Jury even if it is an LEO clear cut clean shooting.

[seamusTX]

... I don't recall reading anything that indicates that the cops are wanting to prosecute anyone in this case. Everything that I've read seem to indicate that the Pasadena PD has kept pretty quiet about this case, and have treated this case properly.

I agree. Mr. Horn was not arrested, and the DA's office is not preferring charges. The police quickly identified the late unlamented as criminals.

All the noise has come from protestors and mostly out-of-state media.

- Jim

[lawrnk]

Am I the only person surprised that we are past the 6 week mark, with no GJ in sight?

[Venus Pax]

I'm curious as to how Mr. Horn and his family are doing at this time.

I understand that the neighborhood is back to normal.