I know we have a thread about the case and the legalities that it 13 pages long. I spoke to his attorney today and was told we can help Joe Horn at this website. Even a couple bucks helps. Spread it around. Joe has very limited means.
http://www.joehornformyneighbor.com/
Louis Farrakhan writes about Joe Horn
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lawrnk
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http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5374078.html
Falkenberg: Property outweighing people in Horn case
By LISA FALKENBERG
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
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In Joe Horn's now-infamous 911 call reporting the burglary of his neighbor's home last month, there's a particularly disturbing refrain that made many of us cringe.
"I'm not going to let them get away with this," the Pasadena homeowner tells the dispatcher several times in various ways in the moments before he shot to death the two burglars, Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 28, and Diego Ortiz, 30.
To many of us, Horn's preoccupation with stopping the crime and recovering the stolen property — "a bag of loot," as Horn described it — seemed irrational and vengeful rather than heroic.
We agreed with the dispatcher, who repeatedly pleaded with the 61-year-old computer consultant to keep himself and his shotgun safe inside his own house while police headed to the scene.
"Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over," the dispatcher told Horn.
Property vs. human life
Human life is worth more than property. It seems like a universal truth. But apparently not in Texas, or other states with similar laws.
Over the past week, I've researched the Texas Penal Code and discovered some provisions that were surprising even to this fifth-generation Texan.
The law of our land seems to place more value on the property being stolen — even if it belongs to a neighbor — than on the life of the burglar stealing it.
A review of our state's protection-of-property statutes suggests that Horn's repeated declarations about not letting the burglars "get away with it" may be the words that ultimately set him free.
If Horn doesn't get indicted, don't blame the grand jury. And don't blame Harris County District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal. Blame the section of Chapter 9 of the Penal Code that deals with protection of property.
Justifiable homicide
Under the section, which has been in place at least since 1973, a person is justified in using deadly force to protect a neighbor's property from burglary if the person "reasonably believes" deadly force is immediately necessary to stop the burglars from escaping with the stolen property. It's also justified if the shooter "reasonably believes" that "the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means."
Now, one might argue that, since the dispatcher told Horn that police were on their way, Horn should have reasonably believed authorities would nab the bad guys.
But the escalating anxiety in Horn's voice as he sees the burglars emerge from his neighbor's window with the goods, and his reiteration that "they're getting away" moments before he fires his 12-gauge may indicate to a grand jury that Horn didn't believe police would arrive in time.
Rosenthal wouldn't discuss the particulars of the Horn case, which he is still waiting to receive from Pasadena police. And police haven't revealed all the facts. A police spokesman disclosed last week that, according to a plainclothes detective who witnessed the Nov. 14 shootings, Horn shot the two men in the back after they'd ventured into his front yard.
The fact that they were on his yard may provide Horn with even more protection.
Rosenthal said he won't let the controversy surrounding the case influence his office's handling of it.
And the prosecutor won't make a recommendation to the grand jury, which Rosenthal said is standard for such cases.
"We'll take it to a grand jury; we'll present it straight up, and whatever the grand jury does, we'll follow it. And if they decide they want to indict the guy, we'll handle it and we'll suffer the slings and arrows, but that's part of the territory," Rosenthal said.
Even if they don't indict him, it doesn't mean Horn's actions were morally right. He chose to kill; he didn't have to. His own life and property were not in danger until he confronted the burglars.
There's a difference between what we can do and what we should do. Without careful judgment and discretion, the law can be a dangerous thing.
The same law that may protect Horn from indictment could also protect someone who, in the dark of night, discovers a group of teenage girls wrapping his front yard trees with toilet paper.
To a rational person, this is a harmless prank. Under Texas law, in a world without discretion, the girls are engaging in criminal mischief and the homeowner would be justified in mowing them down with a shotgun.
Falkenberg: Property outweighing people in Horn case
By LISA FALKENBERG
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
TOOLS
Email Get section feed
Print Subscribe NOW
Comments (997) Recommend (7)
In Joe Horn's now-infamous 911 call reporting the burglary of his neighbor's home last month, there's a particularly disturbing refrain that made many of us cringe.
"I'm not going to let them get away with this," the Pasadena homeowner tells the dispatcher several times in various ways in the moments before he shot to death the two burglars, Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 28, and Diego Ortiz, 30.
To many of us, Horn's preoccupation with stopping the crime and recovering the stolen property — "a bag of loot," as Horn described it — seemed irrational and vengeful rather than heroic.
We agreed with the dispatcher, who repeatedly pleaded with the 61-year-old computer consultant to keep himself and his shotgun safe inside his own house while police headed to the scene.
"Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over," the dispatcher told Horn.
Property vs. human life
Human life is worth more than property. It seems like a universal truth. But apparently not in Texas, or other states with similar laws.
Over the past week, I've researched the Texas Penal Code and discovered some provisions that were surprising even to this fifth-generation Texan.
The law of our land seems to place more value on the property being stolen — even if it belongs to a neighbor — than on the life of the burglar stealing it.
A review of our state's protection-of-property statutes suggests that Horn's repeated declarations about not letting the burglars "get away with it" may be the words that ultimately set him free.
If Horn doesn't get indicted, don't blame the grand jury. And don't blame Harris County District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal. Blame the section of Chapter 9 of the Penal Code that deals with protection of property.
Justifiable homicide
Under the section, which has been in place at least since 1973, a person is justified in using deadly force to protect a neighbor's property from burglary if the person "reasonably believes" deadly force is immediately necessary to stop the burglars from escaping with the stolen property. It's also justified if the shooter "reasonably believes" that "the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means."
Now, one might argue that, since the dispatcher told Horn that police were on their way, Horn should have reasonably believed authorities would nab the bad guys.
But the escalating anxiety in Horn's voice as he sees the burglars emerge from his neighbor's window with the goods, and his reiteration that "they're getting away" moments before he fires his 12-gauge may indicate to a grand jury that Horn didn't believe police would arrive in time.
Rosenthal wouldn't discuss the particulars of the Horn case, which he is still waiting to receive from Pasadena police. And police haven't revealed all the facts. A police spokesman disclosed last week that, according to a plainclothes detective who witnessed the Nov. 14 shootings, Horn shot the two men in the back after they'd ventured into his front yard.
The fact that they were on his yard may provide Horn with even more protection.
Rosenthal said he won't let the controversy surrounding the case influence his office's handling of it.
And the prosecutor won't make a recommendation to the grand jury, which Rosenthal said is standard for such cases.
"We'll take it to a grand jury; we'll present it straight up, and whatever the grand jury does, we'll follow it. And if they decide they want to indict the guy, we'll handle it and we'll suffer the slings and arrows, but that's part of the territory," Rosenthal said.
Even if they don't indict him, it doesn't mean Horn's actions were morally right. He chose to kill; he didn't have to. His own life and property were not in danger until he confronted the burglars.
There's a difference between what we can do and what we should do. Without careful judgment and discretion, the law can be a dangerous thing.
The same law that may protect Horn from indictment could also protect someone who, in the dark of night, discovers a group of teenage girls wrapping his front yard trees with toilet paper.
To a rational person, this is a harmless prank. Under Texas law, in a world without discretion, the girls are engaging in criminal mischief and the homeowner would be justified in mowing them down with a shotgun.
Last edited by lawrnk on Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Life Member- NRA
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Wouldn't it be better if we can send money directly to Mr. Horn?
Please help the wounded store owner who fought off 3 robbers. He doesn't have medical insurance.
http://www.giveforward.com/ramoncastillo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.click2houston.com/news/26249961/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.giveforward.com/ramoncastillo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.click2houston.com/news/26249961/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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stevie_d_64
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One other thing to note...
The media pimps are going to cover a planned protest outside Mr. Horns house this weekend...Last I heard that might occur on Sunday 12/2/07...
The protesters are going to be made up of one of the criminals fiance and a group of media pimps of the usual sort...
I am sure the neighbors of Mr. Horn will be annoyed by this once again, and that I am debating whether or not I would want to wander over there when they are there protesting and getting plenty of inflammatory media attention that it should be balanced somewhat...
If anyone thinks they'd like to coordinate something with me, feel free to PM me if you'd like to do something about this...
Let me preface this with that I am not suggesting I'm in total support of what Mr. Horn said or did...But I believe if the forces of evil wish to distort this into something that can potentially make all of us look bad...
Something reasonable needs to have the opportunity to present itself in regards to the big picture of the issue...And not some much about the specifics of the case...
I'm still debating if this is a good or bad thing, and it may end up being something that might be either a good thing to do, or just let the pimps rule the day on this incident...
Just my opinion...
The media pimps are going to cover a planned protest outside Mr. Horns house this weekend...Last I heard that might occur on Sunday 12/2/07...
The protesters are going to be made up of one of the criminals fiance and a group of media pimps of the usual sort...
I am sure the neighbors of Mr. Horn will be annoyed by this once again, and that I am debating whether or not I would want to wander over there when they are there protesting and getting plenty of inflammatory media attention that it should be balanced somewhat...
If anyone thinks they'd like to coordinate something with me, feel free to PM me if you'd like to do something about this...
Let me preface this with that I am not suggesting I'm in total support of what Mr. Horn said or did...But I believe if the forces of evil wish to distort this into something that can potentially make all of us look bad...
Something reasonable needs to have the opportunity to present itself in regards to the big picture of the issue...And not some much about the specifics of the case...
I'm still debating if this is a good or bad thing, and it may end up being something that might be either a good thing to do, or just let the pimps rule the day on this incident...
Just my opinion...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Μολών λαβέ!
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Μολών λαβέ!
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elwood blooz
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lawrnk
Topic author - Senior Member
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- Location: Sienna Plantation, TX (FT BEND)
Put me down. We need a counter protest. Seeing as the protesters will all be criminal or the like, the more CHL's the better.
stevie_d_64 wrote:One other thing to note...
The media pimps are going to cover a planned protest outside Mr. Horns house this weekend...Last I heard that might occur on Sunday 12/2/07...
The protesters are going to be made up of one of the criminals fiance and a group of media pimps of the usual sort...
I am sure the neighbors of Mr. Horn will be annoyed by this once again, and that I am debating whether or not I would want to wander over there when they are there protesting and getting plenty of inflammatory media attention that it should be balanced somewhat...
If anyone thinks they'd like to coordinate something with me, feel free to PM me if you'd like to do something about this...
Let me preface this with that I am not suggesting I'm in total support of what Mr. Horn said or did...But I believe if the forces of evil wish to distort this into something that can potentially make all of us look bad...
Something reasonable needs to have the opportunity to present itself in regards to the big picture of the issue...And not some much about the specifics of the case...
I'm still debating if this is a good or bad thing, and it may end up being something that might be either a good thing to do, or just let the pimps rule the day on this incident...
Just my opinion...
Member- TSRA
Life Member- NRA
Life Member- NRA
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lawrnk
Topic author - Senior Member
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Hey,frankie_the_yankee wrote:The best way to help Joe Horn would be to stuff a sock in his mouth and wrap it with duct tape.
But if his lawyer is any good, he already beat me to it.
The 2nd best way is probably to send a donation to his legal defense fund.
Even though he might have pushed the envelope, I think I can see my way clear to do that.
Is the hope floats house still a big attraction up there in Smithville?
My mom went and the neighbor sells pics of Sandra bullock for a dollar.
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Life Member- NRA
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waltherone
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stevie_d_64
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Even if there is only a couple of us...Thats fine...I just believe this needs to be attended...
I guess nail down the time and day...We know where it'll be...
We'll just play it cool...
I guess nail down the time and day...We know where it'll be...
We'll just play it cool...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Μολών λαβέ!
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Μολών λαβέ!
Can we carry?
What time exactly?
What time exactly?
stevie_d_64 wrote:Even if there is only a couple of us...Thats fine...I just believe this needs to be attended...
I guess nail down the time and day...We know where it'll be...
We'll just play it cool...
Please help the wounded store owner who fought off 3 robbers. He doesn't have medical insurance.
http://www.giveforward.com/ramoncastillo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.click2houston.com/news/26249961/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.giveforward.com/ramoncastillo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.click2houston.com/news/26249961/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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flb_78
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I dont see why you couldn't carry. The more appropriate response would be to show up with a shotgun over your shoulder and take a seat in a lawnchair on his front lawn.Stupid wrote:Can we carry?
What time exactly?
stevie_d_64 wrote:Even if there is only a couple of us...Thats fine...I just believe this needs to be attended...
I guess nail down the time and day...We know where it'll be...
We'll just play it cool...
Open carry of long guns and all... 
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mrvmax
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I think his actions were borderline, but I stil support him and there is no way quannell xyz should be allowed to harass him. I heard quannel challenge this man to come out ot his front yard with his shotgun on Sunday. It sounded like a threat to me and if it were me I would be at the Police station demanding that they do something to quannel for threatening him. The only thing that can come out of this harassment protest is trouble. I would never go because it would be too hard to refrain myself from getting into an altercation with those race baiters.
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LedJedi
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Donation sent (thank you very much for posting that).
Please let me know if something comes together for sunday. I'll be there with bells on.
I just sent out the following email to just about everyone on my personal distribution list. (always BCC so you dont give away everyone's email addy). Feel free to copy/paste and send out as you like.
Please let me know if something comes together for sunday. I'll be there with bells on.
I just sent out the following email to just about everyone on my personal distribution list. (always BCC so you dont give away everyone's email addy). Feel free to copy/paste and send out as you like.
Everyone on this email list knows me well enough to know I don't send out mass mailings unless it's something that should really be paid attention to.
You probably remember seeing this on the news. Here's a reminder of what this proud American did in defense of a neighbor.
Tit has come to tat and Mr. Horn is now in legal trouble brought on by media pressuring police to act on the case. The website below allows you to donate directly to Joe's family friend and lawyer to help out his cause. Don't let this man take one for the team because he was defending his neighborhood. $5-10 from everyone on this list can make a huge difference. Mr. Horn is on a fixed income and of very limited means so this situation is taxing his family a great deal. For those of you that think he was in the wrong, don't sweat it. I already made a donation in your name :)Elderly man fatally shoots 2 reported burglars targeting neighbor's home
03:39 PM CST on Wednesday, November 14, 2007
By Juanita Jimenez /KHOU 11 News
Two reported thieves in Pasadena are dead after a neighbor, in his 70s, took matters into his own hands.
The ordeal occurred Wednesday afternoon at 7814 Timberline.
Pasadena Police say it began when an elderly neighbor heard glass breaking at the home next door, so he headed out to investigate.
It was then, police say, that the individual saw two men climbing out the rear window of his neighbor's home.
The pair was reportedly carrying items from the home.
The neighbor reportedly told the pair to drop the items and then, police say, he shot both men when they didn’t comply.
http://www.joehornformyneighbor.com/
Feel free to pass this email on to others.