This one is a doozy of a question

[Morbidrealities]

If a lawyer could chime in, that'd be great.

Say I walk up to a building and it has a 30.06 & 30.07 sign on the door, but no 30.05. Can I walk back to my vehicle, toss my LTC inside it and then walk inside the building legally? I would think that CC/PC would supersede the requirement of an LTC holder to have on their person their LTC, since the 2nd Amendment is quite literally the justification for the law being written, passed and implemented. Can I chose today to leave my LTC at home and carry under the states recognition of my 2nd Amendment right or am I still required per the LTC-16 to have my LTC permit on my person. The same argument could be had for vehicle carry as well. If I am carrying in my vehicle (not on my person) and have an LTC, I have a legal duty to inform. What If I leave my LTC at home, do I still have a legal duty to inform just because I have an LTC at home on my nightstand? I am not asking for the don't ask, don't tell methodology of carrying that is, "what they don't know can't get me in trouble". I'm asking about what would be actually legal.

[carlson1]

I am not for sure why leaving your LTC in the car or nightstand would make a difference.

[Morbidrealities]

I am not for sure why leaving your LTC in the car or nightstand would make a difference.

A 30.05 is required to stop CC/PC from entering while armed. Would the state decide that suddenly you no longer have CC/PC rights as long as you were issued an LTC, even if you don't have your LTC on you? That would, in my opinion at least, be counter to the states recognition of rights. The text body of the law says who can and cannot CC/PC, but has no exclusionary writing for those that were issued an LTC.

[TreyHouston]

I can leave my drivers license in my nightstand and still get pulled over. They can pull up the fact that I have a drivers license on their computer. Same with LTC.

[03Lightningrocks]

I can leave my drivers license in my nightstand and still get pulled over. They can pull up the fact that I have a drivers license on their computer. Same with LTC.

I think they will know you have an LTC if they pull your registration from your license plate, Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read that in here.

[carlson1]

I can leave my drivers license in my nightstand and still get pulled over. They can pull up the fact that I have a drivers license on their computer. Same with LTC.

I think they will know you have an LTC if they pull your registration from your license plate, Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read that in here.

They can’t know by your license plate, but it is attached to your drivers license. Your insurance is attached to your license plate, but not the LTC.

[03Lightningrocks]

I can leave my drivers license in my nightstand and still get pulled over. They can pull up the fact that I have a drivers license on their computer. Same with LTC.

I think they will know you have an LTC if they pull your registration from your license plate, Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read that in here.

They can’t know by your license plate, but it is attached to your drivers license. Your insurance is attached to your license plate, but not the LTC.

Thanks for the information. That was why I said I was not sure. I trust you and the wife are both feeling better?

[RottenApple]

The way I think of it is: What authority am I carrying under?

Example 1: So I have a TX LTC. But I accidently leave it at home when I go to the grocery store. Since I am not carrying my LTC, I am carrying under the authority of Texas's CC law (i.e. - no LTC needed). I then go into a store that is not 30.05 posted, but is 30.06 and 30.07 posted. Because I am not carrying under the authority of my LTC license, neither 30.06 or 30.07 signs affect me at all. Therefore I continue to carry my firearm inside said store.

Example 2: So I have a TX LTC. I have it with me when I go to the grocery store. I walk up to the store and notice that they have both 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted, but no 30.05. I return to my car, place my LTC in the console, and continue into the store as normal since I am no longer carrying under the authority of my LTC. Because I am not carrying under the authority of my LTC license, neither 30.06 or 30.07 signs affect me at all.

Example 3: So I have a TX LTC. I have it on me when I go to the grocery store. I walk up to the store and notice that they have a 30.05 sign, but no 30.06 or 30.07. I continue past the sign and carry in the store because I am carrying under the authority of my LTC and therefore the 30.05 sign has no effect on me.

Example 4: So I have a TX LTC. I have it on me when I go to the grocery store. I walk up to the store and notice that they have 30.05, 30.06, and 30.07 signs. I turn around and go to another store.

Just my $0.02 worth.

[03Lightningrocks]

The way I think of it is: What authority am I carrying under?

Example 1: So I have a TX LTC. But I accidently leave it at home when I go to the grocery store. Since I am not carrying my LTC, I am carrying under the authority of Texas's CC law (i.e. - no LTC needed). I then go into a store that is not 30.05 posted, but is 30.06 and 30.07 posted. Because I am not carrying under the authority of my LTC license, neither 30.06 or 30.07 signs affect me at all. Therefore I continue to carry my firearm inside said store.

Example 2: So I have a TX LTC. I have it with me when I go to the grocery store. I walk up to the store and notice that they have both 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted, but no 30.05. I return to my car, place my LTC in the console, and continue into the store as normal since I am no longer carrying under the authority of my LTC. Because I am not carrying under the authority of my LTC license, neither 30.06 or 30.07 signs affect me at all.

Example 3: So I have a TX LTC. I have it on me when I go to the grocery store. I walk up to the store and notice that they have a 30.05 sign, but no 30.06 or 30.07. I continue past the sign and carry in the store because I am carrying under the authority of my LTC and therefore the 30.05 sign has no effect on me.

Example 4: So I have a TX LTC. I have it on me when I go to the grocery store. I walk up to the store and notice that they have 30.05, 30.06, and 30.07 signs. I turn around and go to another store.

Just my $0.02 worth.

I love number 4

[srothstein]

The way I think of it is: What authority am I carrying under?

Example 1: So I have a TX LTC. But I accidently leave it at home when I go to the grocery store. Since I am not carrying my LTC, I am carrying under the authority of Texas's CC law (i.e. - no LTC needed). I then go into a store that is not 30.05 posted, but is 30.06 and 30.07 posted. Because I am not carrying under the authority of my LTC license, neither 30.06 or 30.07 signs affect me at all. Therefore I continue to carry my firearm inside said store.

Example 2: So I have a TX LTC. I have it with me when I go to the grocery store. I walk up to the store and notice that they have both 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted, but no 30.05. I return to my car, place my LTC in the console, and continue into the store as normal since I am no longer carrying under the authority of my LTC. Because I am not carrying under the authority of my LTC license, neither 30.06 or 30.07 signs affect me at all.

Example 3: So I have a TX LTC. I have it on me when I go to the grocery store. I walk up to the store and notice that they have a 30.05 sign, but no 30.06 or 30.07. I continue past the sign and carry in the store because I am carrying under the authority of my LTC and therefore the 30.05 sign has no effect on me.

Example 4: So I have a TX LTC. I have it on me when I go to the grocery store. I walk up to the store and notice that they have 30.05, 30.06, and 30.07 signs. I turn around and go to another store.

Just my $0.02 worth.

While I agree with the principle of deciding what the authority is for your carry, I think you are misapplying that authority. The key point to remember is that 30.06 and 30.07 only apply to people who are carrying under the authority of the license. The next important step to remember is that the license is designed as an exception to the law. You are only carrying under the authority of your license if carrying without it would be a violation of the law. This is not whether or not you have the license with you, at least since they removed the penalty for not showing it.

So, if you go to a grocery store and see it is posted with both 30.06 and 30.07 signs but not 30.05, then you can carry in there because it would not be against the law to do so and therefore your license does not apply. If they have only the 30.05 sign, then you can carry in there because your license now applies (the exception in the 30.05 law that makes it not apply to an LTC).

Of course, your step 4 is always correct.

[chasfm11]

Here is are a couple of questions that I think are related.

1. Why would a store that posted a 30.06 not also put up a 30.05 sign? They obviously don't want licensed guns in their building and I have a problem believing that they would knowingly welcome unlicensed guns. My opinion is that they think that they have it covered a different way.
2. Mose grocery stores sell beer and wine. They are therefore covered by the TABC and all of them continue to display the TABC sign about unlicensed carry being a felony. When Constitutional Carry passed, I expected the TABC signs come done but not a single one(that I'm aware of) has.

Please allow me to contrast Whole Foods with Sprouts Farmer's Market on this matter. Whole Foods modified their combined sign for 30.06 and 30.07 to include 30.05. It is a separate discussion as to whether that homogenized wording is enforceable but they clearly understand Constitutional Carry and the legal need to mention 30.05 to keep guns out. Sprouts, on the other hand, is every bit as anit-gun but has no 30.05 (or didn't several months after the new law went into effect)

The only other large group of buildings that prohibit licensed carry are medical buildings. Clearly they don't sell alcohol and cannot use the TABC to shield them from Constitutional Carry. I have not been near many of those so I have no idea how many of the have added 30.05 and won't even hazard a guess. But I cannot imagine the medical community not taking action.

[NotRPB]

The way I think of it is: What authority am I carrying under?

Example 1: So I have a TX LTC. But I accidently leave it at home when I go to the grocery store. Since I am not carrying my LTC, I am carrying under the authority of Texas's CC law (i.e. - no LTC needed). I then go into a store that is not 30.05 posted, but is 30.06 and 30.07 posted. Because I am not carrying under the authority of my LTC license, neither 30.06 or 30.07 signs affect me at all. Therefore I continue to carry my firearm inside said store.

Example 2: So I have a TX LTC. I have it with me when I go to the grocery store. I walk up to the store and notice that they have both 30.06 and 30.07 signs posted, but no 30.05. I return to my car, place my LTC in the console, and continue into the store as normal since I am no longer carrying under the authority of my LTC. Because I am not carrying under the authority of my LTC license, neither 30.06 or 30.07 signs affect me at all.

Example 3: So I have a TX LTC. I have it on me when I go to the grocery store. I walk up to the store and notice that they have a 30.05 sign, but no 30.06 or 30.07. I continue past the sign and carry in the store because I am carrying under the authority of my LTC and therefore the 30.05 sign has no effect on me.

Example 4: So I have a TX LTC. I have it on me when I go to the grocery store. I walk up to the store and notice that they have 30.05, 30.06, and 30.07 signs. I turn around and go to another store.

Just my $0.02 worth.

While I agree with the principle of deciding what the authority is for your carry, I think you are misapplying that authority. The key point to remember is that 30.06 and 30.07 only apply to people who are carrying under the authority of the license. The next important step to remember is that the license is designed as an exception to the law. You are only carrying under the authority of your license if carrying without it would be a violation of the law. This is not whether or not you have the license with you, at least since they removed the penalty for not showing it.

So, if you go to a grocery store and see it is posted with both 30.06 and 30.07 signs but not 30.05, then you can carry in there because it would not be against the law to do so and therefore your license does not apply. If they have only the 30.05 sign, then you can carry in there because your license now applies (the exception in the 30.05 law that makes it not apply to an LTC).

Of course, your step 4 is always correct.

Thanks, srothstein, that analysis/rationale makes really good sense to me, i DO WISH FOR LEGISLATION ON SPECIFIC LANGUAGE/SIZE ON THE 30.05 SIGNS SO I RECEIVE "PROPER NOTICE" FROM SOMEONE IN AUTHORITY AT THE BUSINESS & DON'T ACCIDENTALLY NOT SEE A 1" X 2" GUNBUSTER STICKER that perhaps SOME RANDOM anti-self-defense CUSTOMER PASTED ON THAT NO ONE NOTICES I'd hate to make a mistake & not see something someone "imagines" is a 30.05 prohibition sign, when perhaps they only wanted to prohibit berettas, or "firearms" as defined, but not guns manufactured prior to certain dates or black powder pistols (in other words, I want a 30.05 "big ugly sign" requirement, such that all 3 are notice-able )

[Excaliber]

My opinion (which is worth exactly what you paid for it) is that if the authority needed to carry in a particular circumstance is covered by any of the credentials or privileges you hold, you're good to go without playing games with leaving LTC cards in a vehicle.

I also can't see an LEO trying to penalize someone for having an LTC.

With that said, there is a benefit to remembering that "concealed" means concealed. It avoids tempting someone to use you as a test case.

[03Lightningrocks]

My opinion (which is worth exactly what you paid for it) is that if the authority needed to carry in a particular circumstance is covered by any of the credentials or privileges you hold, you're good to go without playing games with leaving LTC cards in a vehicle.

I also can't see an LEO trying to penalize someone for having an LTC.

With that said, there is a benefit to remembering that "concealed" means concealed. It avoids tempting someone to use you as a test case.

IMHO... which is just that, an opinion. One is far more likely to run into a busy body out to make points when open carrying in more populated areas. The more people you encounter, the greater the risk of someone making an "issue" of a side arm they can see.

[Soccerdad1995]

I am smiling as I think about the scenario where a LEO writes me a citation for carrying past a 30.06 /30.07 sign (but no 30.05). I would be severely tempted to ask the officer whether he had an LTC, because if he did he would need to write himself the same citation. After all, the principle would be that the LTC always takes precedence under any other authority to carry a firearm...

Highly unlikely that I would ever even get issued such a citation, but humorous to think about.