(Another) Castle Doctrine Question

[alphonso]

I think I understand the Castle Doctrine correctly. I wonder, though, if the same rules apply to me when I am in someone else's house as a guest.

Example, staying with my in laws in Dallas...If I'm in THEIR house do I have the same rules governing as if it was my house?

[frankie_the_yankee]

Castle Doctrine applies anywhere you have a legal right to be.

The term "Castle Doctrine" is a misnomer and is misleading. Essentially, under the new law, your "castle" now extends to anywhere you happen to be so long as you have the right to be there.

[seamusTX]

Example, staying with my in laws in Dallas...If I'm in THEIR house do I have the same rules governing as if it was my house?

Yes.

Here's the catch: If you are in your home, and someone is banging on the door, you know that person doesn't belong there and is attempting to commit a crime.

In another person's home, you don't know what kind of shady stuff they might have going on. I'm not saying your in-laws would be involved in something like that, but in general.

- Jim

[txinvestigator]

Example, staying with my in laws in Dallas...If I'm in THEIR house do I have the same rules governing as if it was my house?

Yes.

Here's the catch: If you are in your home, and someone is banging on the door, you know that person doesn't belong there and is attempting to commit a crime.

A person banging on my door is committing a crime?

[stevie_d_64]

Example, staying with my in laws in Dallas...If I'm in THEIR house do I have the same rules governing as if it was my house?

Yes.

Here's the catch: If you are in your home, and someone is banging on the door, you know that person doesn't belong there and is attempting to commit a crime.

A person banging on my door is committing a crime?

Well they could have a toomah, or they might be disturbing the peace? ehem...Right???

All kidding aside...Someone banging on my door is going to get some honest and un-judgemental attention from me...

Sure, you just don't know about some people these days, but then again lots of discussions are made everyday with a door (closed and locked) in between people...

[WarHawk-AVG]

It should be known as a "Stand your ground" law

You no longer have to flee..you can stand your ground in the case of an attack and fight back with equal force, deadly force if necessary

[seamusTX]

A person banging on my door is committing a crime?

§ 28.03. CRIMINAL MISCHIEF. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner:
(1) he intentionally or knowingly damages or destroys the tangible property of the owner;

Some finite number of bangs is going to bring the door down. It might be one or a million, depending upon the strength of the door and the banger, but each bang constitutes measureable damage.

Furthermore, banging on a door is often a prelude to outright burglary.

What action or reaction do you suggest when someone is banging on a door?

The definition of bang here is a resounding blow, not a polite knock like the Avon lady might use.

- Jim

[TC-TX]

A person banging on my door is committing a crime?

§ 28.03. CRIMINAL MISCHIEF. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner:
(1) he intentionally or knowingly damages or destroys the tangible property of the owner;

Some finite number of bangs is going to bring the door down. It might be one or a million, depending upon the strength of the door and the banger, but each bang constitutes measureable damage.

HOLY COW - that is a S t r e t c h of Biblical Proportions!!! No wait - that is BullHockey!

You better hope you are never faced convicing a jury of that nonsense...

Furthermore, banging on a door is often a prelude to outright burglary.

Just exactly WHEN did you ever hear of a burgular who Knocks First???


Where do you get this stuff??? Is it April 1st?

[KD5NRH]

Just exactly WHEN did you ever hear of a burgular who Knocks First???

It's pretty common; they knock to see if someone will let them in first, or to make sure that nobody's home.

FORT WORTH - A suspected burglar shot several times Monday with his own gun remained in critical condition but is expected to survive his injures, police officials said Tuesday.


Avery Harris, 36, checked into Harris Methodist Fort Worth Hospital with gunshot wounds to the abdomen, not long after a Fort Worth man called police to report that he had shot an intruder inside his apartment and that the burglar had fled.


Lt. Gene Jones, a police spokesman, said investigators were able to collect evidence that confirmed Harris was the suspect involved in the burglary. He faces a charge of burglary of a habitation.


Investigators suspect Harris knocked on the door of an apartment at the Village at Post Oak complex in the 3800 block of Great Oak Road about 3:30 p.m. Monday — a common technique used by burglars casing a residence.


“They go and knock. No one answers so they think no ones there,” Jones said.


Ronald White, 36, told police that he heard the knock but was unable to answer the door because he was giving himself a medical treatment.


Minutes later, White heard someone enter his rear patio door. He told police he walked into the living room to investigate and found a handgun lying near his sofa, which he picked up.


The intruder “didn’t think anybody was there. That’s why he put the gun down,” Jones said.


After hearing a noise coming from the bedroom, White, gun in hand, walked into the bedroom where he discovered an unknown man rummaging through a drawer.


White told police the intruder turned and faced him, then reached into his waistband as if to get a weapon. Fearing for his life, White told police that he fired several rounds at the intruder, striking the man in the midsection.


White told police that he then went into another room to call 911 after the intruder requested medical help. Upon returning, White found the intruder gone, police said.


Responding officers followed a trial of blood from the apartment to the parking lot.

Several other news items lately indicate that this is happening quite a bit.

[Renegade]

A person banging on my door is committing a crime?

§ 28.03. CRIMINAL MISCHIEF. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner:
(1) he intentionally or knowingly damages or destroys the tangible property of the owner;

Some finite number of bangs is going to bring the door down. It might be one or a million, depending upon the strength of the door and the banger, but each bang constitutes measureable damage.

HOLY COW - that is a S t r e t c h of Biblical Proportions!!! No wait - that is BullHockey!

Banging on door could also be construed as an attempt to break-in. Google "Carter Albrecht".

[Renegade]

Furthermore, banging on a door is often a prelude to outright burglary.

Just exactly WHEN did you ever hear of a burgular who Knocks First???

Where do you get this stuff??? Is it April 1st?

Wow. Banging on doors is a definite MO of a burglar. As is calling the home on telephone before hand too. Old, but proven techniques.

You may want to re-think your prejudice of how a burglar operates before you let one into your home unknowingly.

[TC-TX]

A person banging on my door is committing a crime?

§ 28.03. CRIMINAL MISCHIEF. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner:
(1) he intentionally or knowingly damages or destroys the tangible property of the owner;

Some finite number of bangs is going to bring the door down. It might be one or a million, depending upon the strength of the door and the banger, but each bang constitutes measureable damage.

HOLY COW - that is a S t r e t c h of Biblical Proportions!!! No wait - that is BullHockey!

Banging on door could also be construed as an attempt to break-in. Google "Carter Albrecht".

MY POINT IS that - in and of itself - banging on your door does not constitute a crime.

[Renegade]

MY POINT IS that - in and of itself - banging on your door does not constitute a crime.

I urge you to google "Carter Albrecht" and see how banging on the door, can be interpreted as a crime, and can lead to a justified homicide. I would not have believed it either. Now if you mean knocking on the door, or ringing the doorbell, I agree, but I would be very hesitant to bang on a stranger's door in the middle of the night.....

[TC-TX]

MY POINT IS that - in and of itself - banging on your door does not constitute a crime.

I urge you to google "Carter Albrecht" and see how banging on the door, can be interpreted as a crime, and can lead to a justified homicide. I would not have believed it either. Now if you mean knocking on the door, or ringing the doorbell, I agree, but I would be very hesitant to bang on a stranger's door in the middle of the night.....

I am intimately aware of the Albrecht case - and IMO - that is NOT a justifiable case for the use of Deadly Force... although I am quite sure the shooter walks...

Albrecht only committed a violation if the homeowner gave him commands to exit his property. AND THEN it is still not a justifiable DF defense... IMO

We may never know the truth.

MY POINT REMAINS that - in and of itself - banging on your door does not constitute a crime.

[ELB]

In reference to the in-laws situation -- if someone is imminently threatening me, or my wife, buddy, in-laws, etc, with death or serious injury, he is going to get shot, regardless of whose house I am in. As noted above, the (more correctly described) stand-your-ground law clarifies that you don't have to try to run away first if you have a right to be where you are.

As to banging on the door... (at the risk of re-inflaming the whole would-you-shoot-through-the-door discussion):

I certainly would not start shooting solely because someone is banging, however violently, on my door. It would have to be coupled with someother indication that I am under threat of attack. For example:

Fireman/cop/neighbor hammering on the door to wake me up and tell me my house/apartment building/motel/hotel is on fire -- would be very impolite to shoot them.

Charles Manson-look-alike and six of his buddies screaming incoherently and wielding axes on my door, and I can see them through the peephole/window/surveillance camera to verify this -- yeah, there might be some shootin' about to commence.

I suspect there is more to the Carter Albrecht story than has been adequately covered in the press, but I hesitate to judge that one. As a general rule, I would not recommend shooting at loud noises at the door.

elb