Shootout in South Carolina with video

[Paladin]

(referring to the "gang-banger" that instigated the incident).....

I don't agree with that statement. The police officer had it in his power, his decision, to prevent this incident from happening. When he made the decision to invade the kid's private space to retrieve his goods, he knew exactly what he was doing. He's lucky to be alive.

Thinking about it, I wouldn't be surprised if that gang-banger recognized the officer and was seeking some payback for him or one of his homies.

[austin]

[quote="Paladin
That said he was sloppy in unnecessarily muzzle sweeping the entire store after he entered. Obviously he was under duress, but he could have done better on that. As has been said, his marksmanship technique wasn't ideal either, but 5 hits in dynamic situation like that isn't bad.[/quote]

He did great. He GOTX and moved to cover while shooting.

The appropriate technique when moving to the weak side is to go one handed. You can move faster and you will be more accurate because your pistol is not coupled to your upper body movement.

If you don't believe me, lets get together with airsoft pistols.

He had his finger off the trigger when he came inside. That's all the safety you need.

[Photoman]

Are you for real?

This has happened to me a lot of times. Where your paying for something and you move liek 4 ft to put something back and right away the guy behind is already there. I'm not gonna wait for them to finish picking hundreds of lotto cards before I retrieve my item back LOL.

Seriously man, if that is what made that punk go get a gun then its a good thing it happened already.

I'm very for real.

Watch the WJLA video. At 3:00 minutes the police officer made a decision that ruined everyones day. All he had to do was wait one minute tops, let the kid finish buying gas or whatever and everyone goes on their way. It's even more evident from the behind-the-counter video. You can actually see the kid startle at 1:02 on the CNN video.

And remember, we can't hear the conversation from 3:02 to 3:25 on the WJLA video. It is evident, though, that whatever the police officer said really inflamed the kid.

When you make the decision to carry a gun, you have to be more tolerant of others rude behavior.

I'm not saying the kid had a right to go get his gun, I'm saying the police officer, with a little patience, could haved saved everyone a whole lot of grief.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Are you for real?

This has happened to me a lot of times. Where your paying for something and you move liek 4 ft to put something back and right away the guy behind is already there. I'm not gonna wait for them to finish picking hundreds of lotto cards before I retrieve my item back LOL.

Seriously man, if that is what made that punk go get a gun then its a good thing it happened already.

I'm very for real.

Watch the WJLA video. At 3:00 minutes the police officer made a decision that ruined everyones day. All he had to do was wait one minute tops, let the kid finish buying gas or whatever and everyone goes on their way. It's even more evident from the behind-the-counter video. You can actually see the kid startle at 1:02 on the CNN video.

And remember, we can't hear the conversation from 3:02 to 3:25 on the WJLA video. It is evident, though, that whatever the police officer said really inflamed the kid.

When you make the decision to carry a gun, you have to be more tolerant of others rude behavior.

I'm not saying the kid had a right to go get his gun, I'm saying the police officer, with a little patience, could haved saved everyone a whole lot of grief.

My first CHL instructor made a statement that I still quote today, "If you carry a gun, you'd better learn to eat a lot of crow, or you going to have to shoot a lot of people." This is an obvious overstatement, but it does get the point across.

However, to argue that reaching around a man at a counter should put the officer on notice that he would be the victim of a murder attempt seems a bit of a stretch, in my view. I don't necessarily agree that the "kid" was startled, nor do we know if words were exchanged. However, even if that were the case, no reasonable person would believe that those factors might put their lives in danger, or lead to a gunfight. This fact pattern is different from verbally sparring with someone in such a manner that a reasonable person would believe it might escalate to violence.

Chas.

[WarHawk-AVG]

(referring to the "gang-banger" that instigated the incident).....

I don't agree with that statement. The police officer had it in his power, his decision, to prevent this incident from happening. When he made the decision to invade the kid's private space to retrieve his goods, he knew exactly what he was doing. He's lucky to be alive.

Are you for real?

This has happened to me a lot of times. Where your paying for something and you move liek 4 ft to put something back and right away the guy behind is already there. I'm not gonna wait for them to finish picking hundreds of lotto cards before I retrieve my item back LOL.

Seriously man, if that is what made that punk go get a gun then its a good thing it happened already.

Excuse me..where the hell does brushing up against someone allow them deadly force to shoot me, to assault me

If you look closely the guy had his pistol in his right hand, you could tell he was aggressively approaching the LEO car...watch real close, he passed with his pistol tucked close to his leg..a simple side step and he could have put his pistol on the LEO temple...

How about we quit defending the scumbags and start defending the LEO who have to deal with that trash...or next time its your 16 year old child that that gets drilled in the chest by some gang banger punk because he accidentally bumped into him, or "offended" him in some way

Last time I checked you DON'T settle a simple argument with a pistol in your hand, if you do...be prepared to defend "your words, with your life"

[Paladin]

He did great. He GOTX and moved to cover while shooting.

The appropriate technique when moving to the weak side is to go one handed. You can move faster and you will be more accurate because your pistol is not coupled to your upper body movement.

If you don't believe me, lets get together with airsoft pistols.

He had his finger off the trigger when he came inside. That's all the safety you need.

I agree that his tactics were good and that his marksmanship was decent.

I practice shooting 1-handed moving to my left. But I either extend my arm to use my sights or keep the gun at retention.

But there was no need to sweep everyone in the store, and his one handed technique was not out of any textbook I've seen. Point shooters that I've seen will index their gun to their body. That's how they know where they're gonna hit.

But don't take what I'm saying as a condemnation. That officer was superb in the gunfight and it shows by him still being alive.

[Keith B]

But don't take what I'm saying as a condemnation. That officer was superb in the gunfight and it show by him still being alive.

I agree. BG=1 hit on LEO, LEO = 5 hits on BG. Pretty good ratio in my book for a surprise attack.

[Photoman]

Last time I checked you DON'T settle a simple argument with a pistol in your hand, if you do...be prepared to defend "your words, with your life"

That's what I'm saying. These punks nowdays DO settle simple arguments with a pistol and you better remember that if you want to live.

This was easily avoidable. The officer just decided to challenge the punk and got more than he bargained for.

[RubenZ]

This was easily avoidable. The officer just decided to challenge the punk and got more than he bargained for.

Thats complete crap. Seriously. How do you know the officer just didn't say "Excuse me, just need to grab my things". ?

"Challenge the the punk" You act if the Officer instigated the whole thing.


Lemme guess, If the Officer looked at the punk and the outcome was the same would you be saying "Ooooo well the Officer shouldnt have looked at him"

[Turfspanker]

Last time I checked you DON'T settle a simple argument with a pistol in your hand, if you do...be prepared to defend "your words, with your life"

That's what I'm saying. These punks nowdays DO settle simple arguments with a pistol and you better remember that if you want to live.

This was easily avoidable. The officer just decided to challenge the punk and got more than he bargained for.

Huge assumptions my friend, and I consider everyone here a friend.

We don't know what was said and I doubt the Grand Jury will either.

We do know the facts on video.

Like you, I'll make a broad assumption that most street gang bangers sit at or below the bell curve on intelligence with maybe a 10% SD so even small innuendos can escalate beyond common sense. Our hero glanced back after two steps to see if there was any "after the counter" reaction. We don't know who started the counter exchange and what was said. However, our heros' antenna were up for the rest of the story. He was very well prepared when his would be assailant came within 10 feet of his vehicle. In other words, he anticipated trouble and had his gun ready. Something happened at that counter and I doubt the Store Clerk will provide a compelling, believable story to the Grand Jury.

[frankie_the_yankee]

The BG was going through life on a hair trigger. We're all lucky that he unwittingly took on a cop who had excellent situational awareness and a strong will to prevail in a gunfight.

If the BG had taken on one of the great herd of sheeple instead, as he no doubt fully expected he was doing, he probably would have murdered him/her in cold blood.

The only question now is, is getting shot 5 times and doing a stretch in prison enough to knock some sense into his fool head, or not?

[Velocity]

The only question now is, is getting shot 5 times and doing a stretch in prison enough to knock some sense into his fool head, or not?

I'm curious about this too - well, not the "knock some sense" part, more the "shot 5 times" part. From what I read, the cop had a ".45 glock" - not sure if that's accurate, but if so, apparently this is yet another example of why shot placement is WAY more important than caliber size...

In any case, the action definitely "stopped the threat", which is all one can ask for.

[Photoman]

Huge assumptions my friend, and I consider everyone here a friend.

You're probably right.

Jut remember everyone, there are a lot of people out there running with a real short fuse. Best to give them some space.

[zigzag]

Makes me want a Glock 23. LOL.
Yeah another punk nailed and let it be. Kudos to the LEO, he was good.

[Lucky45]

Eyewitness account here.

Clerk Describes Shoot-Out

Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 06:27 PM Updated: 07:06 PM

By Jenny Fisher
WCBD - TV 2

When you walk into the El Cheapo gas station on Dorchester Road, you can hear the clerk saying, "That's $2.49. Thank you. Honey, come on baby" as she gestures to the next person in line. Vernell Brown dishes out change, stands watch and greets customers all at the same time. Yet, she never expected to add a shooting to her flurry of activity.

Brown said, "I've never been in no shoot-out." Yet, there's a first time for everything and the store's surveillance camera caught it all. There's no audio, but Brown was there from the beginning, "I knew something was going to happen," she said. And after hitting the ground to avoid bullets, she was there in the end. Brown said, "They acted like they were at the ok corral somewhere."

After 15 years as a store clerk, you can expect straight-forward talk from Brown. She said, "I don't think he acted appropriately. It doesn't hurt to say excuse me." She's talking about Off-Duty Cop and Mayoral Candidate Omar Brown, when he reached for his items in front of Customer Antonio Rivers, who appears in green in the video.

The cashier said, "Omar Brown came back to the counter and reached over him. Rivers turned around and said, 'Man, you know, you bumped me.' Brown said almost rudely, 'I said I'm sorry.' Rivers replied, 'You didn't say nothing.' So, Rivers turned back around for me to wait on him and Omar Brown walked off and he turned around and said, 'You ain't seen bumped me yet.'"

As Officer Brown left, Clerk Brown, who's of no relation, said she tried to calm Rivers. The clerk said, "I asked him not to go out the door. He said F this so he was mad, and he went storming out the door." The clerk ran to a window to watch what happened next. She says she saw Officer Brown in his Mercedes, parked near the door. Brown said, "I'm like, why's this man sitting here. He sat there and it's almost like he sat there and waited."

The clerk says Rivers walked towards Brown's car with his arm at his side. The clerk said, "That's when his car came open and I was standing in the window watching everything and all I saw was a big, black gun."

The clerk says Officer Brown fired the first shot, but Rivers returned fire. It's a scene Brown says she'd rather see in the movies than on the job.

Officer Brown has told us he did not exchange words or bump Rivers in the store. Regardless, the solicitor says it's not so much words, but actions that matter. Scarlett Wilson reviewed the surveillance video and says it's clear Rivers rushed out of the store for a gun to solve the disagreement that took place inside the store.

22 Year-Old Rivers is in jail on charges of assault with intent to kill. 39 Year-Old Officer Brown is recovering from a bullet wound to the thigh and working on his campaign for mayor.