TX Law regarding Rifle, Pistol & Firearm - Vehicle Carry

[broberts001]

I believe I understand the fine points to having a handgun & rifle in a vehicle. My question is this: What are the laws/regulation for having a Firearm in a vehicle in TX? Can it be in full display like a rifle? Must it be concealed like a handgun ? If you do not have a CHL, must it be in control of the driver ? Anyone having any direction ?

FYI, this is regarding an AR15, no stock, AOL > 26" and a vertical grip to create a Firearm.

[bfm1851]

People have been carrying a rifle or shotgun in their car/truck for as long as there has been cars/trucks (throw in wagons too). As far as I know (and I'm not an expert on Texas law) there is not law against having a long gun in your vehicle. Though these days its not too smart to just leave it in the back window like we use to. Some states have laws that require you to have gun unloaded and ammo stored in different compartment but those are the states I avoid.
I am sure someone with more knowledge then I will chime in with a better answer.

[cmgee67]

Long guns : Rifles, and shotguns can be in plain view on the dash loaded or unloaded if you want

Handguns: must be out of plain sight so basically concealed. This is for LTC’ers and non. I believe you can have your handgun on your person in your car if you don’t have a LTC but I’m not 100% on that one.

As far as firearms are concerned I don’t know. I would like to carry my 300 black out pistol in the truck but I am afraid on the wildest occasion I would have to use it, I’d get some leo who doesn’t know the difference between pistol and short barreled rifle. So if I’m going to carry a rifle I carry a full sized rifle and same with shotgun. If I’m going to carry an extra pistol I carry a generic handgun

[TexasSully]

Long guns : Rifles, and shotguns can be in plain view on the dash loaded or unloaded if you want

Handguns: must be out of plain sight so basically concealed. This is for LTC’ers and non. I believe you can have your handgun on your person in your car if you don’t have a LTC but I’m not 100% on that one.

As far as firearms are concerned I don’t know. I would like to carry my 300 black out pistol in the truck but I am afraid on the wildest occasion I would have to use it, I’d get some leo who doesn’t know the difference between pistol and short barreled rifle. So if I’m going to carry a rifle I carry a full sized rifle and same with shotgun. If I’m going to carry an extra pistol I carry a generic handgun

With an LTC you can have a handgun in plain sight if it is carried in a belt or shoulder holster.

[The Annoyed Man]

Long guns : Rifles, and shotguns can be in plain view on the dash loaded or unloaded if you want

Handguns: must be out of plain sight so basically concealed. This is for LTC’ers and non. I believe you can have your handgun on your person in your car if you don’t have a LTC but I’m not 100% on that one.

As far as firearms are concerned I don’t know. I would like to carry my 300 black out pistol in the truck but I am afraid on the wildest occasion I would have to use it, I’d get some leo who doesn’t know the difference between pistol and short barreled rifle. So if I’m going to carry a rifle I carry a full sized rifle and same with shotgun. If I’m going to carry an extra pistol I carry a generic handgun

Yes, you can have your handgun on your person in the vehicle if you are not a LTC holder, but it must be concealed ... and don’t leave the vehicle with it on your person unless transitioning between your home and vehicle, or your place of business and vehicle. If you have an LTC, you may open carry the handgun on your person, but I’m pretty sure that it MUST be on your person. An openly displayed handgun sitting on the passenger seat would lack the sanction of LTC, and would violate MPA.

Regarding long guns and NFA items in your vehicle ... to MY mind, it boils down to a financial decision.

I have one registered AR lower with two SBR (10.5” and 11.5”) uppers and one 16” upper for it. Both uppers are suppressed. (I own several other ARs, but this is the only lower that is NFA registered.) As I understand the law, the NFA requires that you be able to provide a copy of your tax stamp to an LEO upon request, when transporting/using a registered firearm - regardless of why you’re transporting/using it. And for the purposes of the law, a silencer is considered a firearm also. Therefore, to keep a suppressed SBR in my vehicle, I need to also be in possession of copies of two different tax stamps if asked for them by an LEO.

The two stamps were a $400 investment. Add in the cost of the suppressor itself - which, at the time that I bought it for $830, was roughly the price of a pretty decent AR all by itself, and a lot more than the same model of suppressor sells for today. Then add in the cost of the SBR itself (well into 4 figures), and this represents a fairly large financial investment. So the question becomes, am I willing to risk any of it being lost to me, through either theft, LEO confiscation, or destruction in an accident? The stamp documentation I carry when I transport these things are mere copies and easily replaced, since the originals are in my safe at home, or stored as PDFs from filing Form 1s. AND THEN, there are the legal hoops you have to jump through in order to report an NFA item as lost, stolen, or destroyed. So as much as I like the NFA stuff, I sometimes seriously question the wisdom (for ME) of using a two-stamp setup as a “truck gun”.

I still have a couple of stripped AR lowers in the safe, so here is ONE possible compromise.... I could build an AR pistol for vehicle use, topped with one of my SBR uppers, and use the much less expensive Form 1 suppressor that I own. While the legal hassles are all still there if the suppressor is lost, it is a lot less hassle than if a suppressed SBR were lost. The Form 1 can cost me about $240 all told to build, and while it’s a little heavier than my commercial cans, it works very well, and it is easily replaced from a financial perspective.

....OR....

I could just throw a 16” M4 or my 20” A4 into the car and not worry about it. Both rifles, BTW, have a suppressor-mount/flashhider, so if I ever actually felt the need to suppress, I could. But I don’t see why a suppressor would be my biggest priority in ANY situation where I would feel compelled to pull out a rifle out of my vehicle and go to work. I like shooting suppressed, but I’m a fat old man, and I’m not an operator operating operationally. I can’t be a ninja, nor do I want to try.

So yeah.... I think that’s what I’m going to stick with...a regular AR carbine or rifle. Nuttin’ fancy.

And for those who don’t already own one or more ARs, Grabagun.com sends out a promotional email nearly every single day, and nearly every one of those emails includes an ad for either a S&W M&P15 Sport II in 5.56, or a Ruger AR 556, for only $499. Just to put things into perspective, that’s less than a lot of us paid for our plain old Glock 19s. Both carbines are perfectly good guns for most uses. I’d buy one of those $500 ARs and a cheap black soft case to keep it in, and throw in a few extra loaded magazines. They both come with an A2 front sight post, and a folding rear BUIS, so you don’t even need to worry about sights. I probably wouldn’t even spend more money on an optic for it; but if I did, it would be something fairly inexpensive, like a Primary Arms RDS. And then I’d just leave it in the car and quit worrying. (Bring it inside at night, of course.)

Just throw an inexpensive AR in the car, and don’t obsess about it.

[southernscope86]

Long guns : Rifles, and shotguns can be in plain view on the dash loaded or unloaded if you want

Handguns: must be out of plain sight so basically concealed. This is for LTC’ers and non. I believe you can have your handgun on your person in your car if you don’t have a LTC but I’m not 100% on that one.

As far as firearms are concerned I don’t know. I would like to carry my 300 black out pistol in the truck but I am afraid on the wildest occasion I would have to use it, I’d get some leo who doesn’t know the difference between pistol and short barreled rifle. So if I’m going to carry a rifle I carry a full sized rifle and same with shotgun. If I’m going to carry an extra pistol I carry a generic handgun

With an LTC you can have a handgun in plain sight if it is carried in a belt or shoulder holster.

Does that belt or shoulder holster have to be on your person? Or can you have it in the seat next to you?

[imkopaka]

Long guns : Rifles, and shotguns can be in plain view on the dash loaded or unloaded if you want

Handguns: must be out of plain sight so basically concealed. This is for LTC’ers and non. I believe you can have your handgun on your person in your car if you don’t have a LTC but I’m not 100% on that one.

As far as firearms are concerned I don’t know. I would like to carry my 300 black out pistol in the truck but I am afraid on the wildest occasion I would have to use it, I’d get some leo who doesn’t know the difference between pistol and short barreled rifle. So if I’m going to carry a rifle I carry a full sized rifle and same with shotgun. If I’m going to carry an extra pistol I carry a generic handgun

With an LTC you can have a handgun in plain sight if it is carried in a belt or shoulder holster.

Does that belt or shoulder holster have to be on your person? Or can you have it in the seat next to you?

The letter of the law does not specify whether the belt or shoulder holster must be on your body, but IMO there isn't a lawyer on the planet that would fail to convince the judge/jury that the spirit of the law is to have it on your person.

[southernscope86]

Long guns : Rifles, and shotguns can be in plain view on the dash loaded or unloaded if you want

Handguns: must be out of plain sight so basically concealed. This is for LTC’ers and non. I believe you can have your handgun on your person in your car if you don’t have a LTC but I’m not 100% on that one.

As far as firearms are concerned I don’t know. I would like to carry my 300 black out pistol in the truck but I am afraid on the wildest occasion I would have to use it, I’d get some leo who doesn’t know the difference between pistol and short barreled rifle. So if I’m going to carry a rifle I carry a full sized rifle and same with shotgun. If I’m going to carry an extra pistol I carry a generic handgun

With an LTC you can have a handgun in plain sight if it is carried in a belt or shoulder holster.

Does that belt or shoulder holster have to be on your person? Or can you have it in the seat next to you?

The letter of the law does not specify whether the belt or shoulder holster must be on your body, but IMO there isn't a lawyer on the planet that would fail to convince the judge/jury that the spirit of the law is to have it on your person.

[broberts001]

But does anyone have any specifics for a Firearm ? Firearms being less than 16" but greater than 26" OAL, with no stock but has a vertical grip? Basically, it is an AR15 pistol configuration.

-Bryan

[G.A. Heath]

But does anyone have any specifics for a Firearm ? Firearms being less than 16" but greater than 26" OAL, with no stock but has a vertical grip? Basically, it is an AR15 pistol configuration.

-Bryan

Look at the Texas definition of a handgun in chapter 46 of the penal code. If it meets THAT definition then it must be concealed. If not it can be treated as a long gun unless it is an NFA item. If it qualifies as an NFA item you need to read up on Texas law regarding NFA items.

[denwego]

I'm not a lawyer, but I too have a firearm in a configuration in much like yours, so I've done quite a bit of research and I can give you the way I read the plain text of it...

Federal - OAL > 26", less than 16" rifled barrel, no stock, pistol grip + vertical foregrip is a non-NFA "firearm" as you say. That said, the thing which keeps it out of AOW land is the notion that OAL > 26" is a presumption that it can't be "concealed on the person," and that presumption can be rebutted if it actually is concealed on the person. You can read all the ATF opinions about Shockwave-style firearms for the legal logic there. I personally find that it might well not hold up, but, my goal is also not to have to go to court to prove it. The phrasing for AOW is concealed on the person though, so federally it doesn't matter if it's concealed or not as long as it's not on your person. Back seat under a blanket or in a case would be kosher for federal laws, in general.

State - We bandy about terms like "long gun" a bunch, but the main concern for carrying something in Texas is whether or not it is a handgun as Texas defines it. Texas says ""Handgun" means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand." Something with a pistol grip and a vertical foregrip pretty plainly isn't "designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand" I would say. The reverse of this is worth pointing out, namely the case Ford v. State, 868 S.W.2d 875... Ford was caught carrying a double barreled shotgun which had been cut down to look like this:



The court convicted him and upheld appeals for it being an illegal SBS but also said that it was a handgun under Texas laws as well because it had been adapted to be fired with one hand. That appellate opinion would be pretty strong precedent that something built to specifically use two hands, like a VFG, would not be a "handgun" as far as Texas goes no matter how big or small. If it's not a "handgun" then LTC and concealed/open with MPA doesn't matter, just general firearm restrictions for state laws, and the fact that it's not a "rifle" or "shotgun" isn't really a state factor.

Take it all with a grain of salt. I think I'm right because I can read words written into law, but it's a thinner line than I would like it to be too often. Being totally safe is why I like to buy me some stamps on a Form 1... money well spent.

[broberts001]

Thanks everyone, this confirms my understanding as well.

-Bryan