Texas Carry Executive Director sued for filing signage complaint against Waller County

[locke_n_load]

This is the ordinary declarayory relief action, the form whenever there is a dispute over interpretation of a written instrument, etc.

While the complaint against Holcomb does not expressly name him as the complainant, there is no doubt that is who filed it. If it turns out otherwise, the case will be dismissed because there is no dispute, effectively, with Holcomb.

I'm not conversant with civil procedure in Texas enough to evaluate this procedurally, the form of pleading, etc.

A District Judge is not presdisposed to rule in anyone's favor, the county or otherwise. There are hundreds of cases where political subdivisions have lost cases against ordinary citizens when the facts and law supported that result. If a judge has reason to feel otherwise, (s)he must recuse him or herself. I have known of cases where, because of strong local feelings, or ties to the community of one party, the entire local bench recused themselves, and the matter was heard by a visiting judge. Judges have a more than ordinary interest in courtroom security, of course. That is likely more of an influence for an individual judge than anything else.

Eventually, courts will interpret these provisions. It will very likely be the Texas Supreme Court to have the final say.

It might have been cheaper for Holcomb to file a complaint in his county and leave it to others to file in their counties. "Don't want no trouble, don't start none."

The suit is utter garbage and suggesting that a person should not avail himself of a statutorily proscribed procedure to prevent continuing violation of Texas law by a governmental entity boggles the mind. BTW, I'm hardly a fan of Terry Holcomb.

Chas.

I agree Charles, Mr. Holcomb has definitely not made himself a friend of those of us who did things the right way to get legislation passed, and he has probably brought a lot of this on himself with his tactics, but, with that said, my concern is that if, Waller County gets a positive ruling regarding the posting of signs, it will set a precedence, that other left leaning g municipalities will follow to try and circumvent, not only the, intent of the legislation, but will create a huge log jam in lawsuits, and courtroom law that will cause the Legislature to have to address on a case by case basis for years to come. And may cause others to be hesitant to file legal complaints, out of fear of facing similar lawsuits.
I'll admit my understanding of these issues is very limited, and I may be completely on the wrong track, and that's why I was hoping you could bring some clarity to this issue.
Any insight would be appreciated.

All of this will be moot if we get serious about removing all off-limits areas. I'm tired of seeing this issue pushed to the back burner for over 10 years now. If we can't get it passed with all of the crap that zoos, libraries and other dishonest local officials are doing, then it will never pass.

Chas.

Are courthouses, in their entirety, on the list of places that we plan on trying to remove from prohibited places?

[mojo84]

Jallen,
Your example of paying fees with company money goes to my point. You were spending company money, not yours. You were also getting paid to manage those lawsuits along with other duties. The government entity is paying attorney's fees with other people's money.

The defendant, which is a private citizen, has to pay out of his pocket even though he is following the law to a T without taking advantage of a "loophole".

In the insurance company case, it was money I was responsible for. In the other cases, it was money that belonged to a company I owned all or in part. The point isn't the money, but the responsibility, a concept that seems to be gradually fading from our DNA.

Let me leave you with the wisdom of a great man. ""Do right, and risk the consequences." -- Sam Houston

Here is a quote you may want to consider.

[Jusme]

Are courthouses, in their entirety, on the list of places that we plan on trying to remove from prohibited places?

All places that law enforcement officers are allowed to carry firearms should apply to LTC holders. The only places they have to disarm are secured portions of jails and prisons. Courthouses, including court rooms, even off duty, police can carry either openly or concealed. TABC 51% locations, LEOs can carry. Professional, collegiate, and high school sporting events are ok for LEOs. All Texas school district premises, on duty or off are ok for police to carry. There is no sound reason to restrict those of us with LTC from carrying in these locations also. We have proven ourselves to be even more law abiding than LEOs, and it is only the prevailing attitudes of those who think only the police should be armed, that have kept us from having that freedom. Of course that still only applies to LTC holders, and doesn't touch on Constitutional Carry.

[mojo84]

Are courthouses, in their entirety, on the list of places that we plan on trying to remove from prohibited places?

All places that law enforcement officers are allowed to carry firearms should apply to LTC holders. The only places they have to disarm are secured portions of jails and prisons. Courthouses, including court rooms, even off duty, police can carry either openly or concealed. TABC 51% locations, LEOs can carry. Professional, collegiate, and high school sporting events are ok for LEOs. All Texas school district premises, on duty or off are ok for police to carry. There is no sound reason to restrict those of us with LTC from carrying in these locations also. We have proven ourselves to be even more law abiding than LEOs, and it is only the prevailing attitudes of those who think only the police should be armed, that have kept us from having that freedom. Of course that still only applies to LTC holders, and doesn't touch on Constitutional Carry.

If I recall correctly, Charles indicated his position is those directly involved in the court proceeding or related to those that are involved should not be allowed to carry in the courtrooms. That is off the top of my head and my recollection may be off some.

I can accept that restriction as I know court cases can get very heated and emotions can run very high.

[Jusme]

Are courthouses, in their entirety, on the list of places that we plan on trying to remove from prohibited places?

All places that law enforcement officers are allowed to carry firearms should apply to LTC holders. The only places they have to disarm are secured portions of jails and prisons. Courthouses, including court rooms, even off duty, police can carry either openly or concealed. TABC 51% locations, LEOs can carry. Professional, collegiate, and high school sporting events are ok for LEOs. All Texas school district premises, on duty or off are ok for police to carry. There is no sound reason to restrict those of us with LTC from carrying in these locations also. We have proven ourselves to be even more law abiding than LEOs, and it is only the prevailing attitudes of those who think only the police should be armed, that have kept us from having that freedom. Of course that still only applies to LTC holders, and doesn't touch on Constitutional Carry.

If I recall correctly, Charles indicated his position is those directly involved in the court proceeding or related to those that are involved should not be allowed to carry in the courtrooms. That is off the top of my head and my recollection may be off some.

I can accept that restriction as I know court cases can get very heated and emotions can run very high.

That is true, but LTC holders have shown that they can be trusted with firearms even in locations or situations where tensions run high. I don't believe that this would change if they were allowed to carry in courtrooms. But, other than as a spectator everyone else would be directly involved, including jurors. I know that it will take monumental effort to get to the point that LTC holders have the same freedoms to carry that LEOs do, but I agree with Charles, that it should at least be brought up for discussion and presented as a bill. Even if it takes more than one Legislative session to hash it out.JMHO

[remington79]

I have not read all of the pages of this thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned. I would be inclined to think that the suit by the county is suppressing the the First Amendment rights of the defendant in the suit. The gentleman saw a wrong and petitioned the government to address the problem. Instead he got sued.

[SewTexas]

My husband suggested that if this actually goes to the point that money is spent, Holcomb could file a suit against Waller County saying that this is SLAPP (strategic lawsuit against public participation) suit. I guess Texas takes a very dim view of such and Waller Co would have a very hard time defending themselves. My husband says that TX has a very strong "citizen participation" law.

[mojo84]

SewTexas,
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. First I've heard of it.

https://slappedintexas.com/primer/

[Jusme]

SewTexas,
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. First I've heard of it.

https://slappedintexas.com/primer/

Yep,
Sounds like Mr Holcomb may have a case under this statute.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Are courthouses, in their entirety, on the list of places that we plan on trying to remove from prohibited places?

All places that law enforcement officers are allowed to carry firearms should apply to LTC holders. The only places they have to disarm are secured portions of jails and prisons. Courthouses, including court rooms, even off duty, police can carry either openly or concealed. TABC 51% locations, LEOs can carry. Professional, collegiate, and high school sporting events are ok for LEOs. All Texas school district premises, on duty or off are ok for police to carry. There is no sound reason to restrict those of us with LTC from carrying in these locations also. We have proven ourselves to be even more law abiding than LEOs, and it is only the prevailing attitudes of those who think only the police should be armed, that have kept us from having that freedom. Of course that still only applies to LTC holders, and doesn't touch on Constitutional Carry.

If I recall correctly, Charles indicated his position is those directly involved in the court proceeding or related to those that are involved should not be allowed to carry in the courtrooms. That is off the top of my head and my recollection may be off some.

I can accept that restriction as I know court cases can get very heated and emotions can run very high.

You are correct. The bill I drafted for the 2017 session allows LTCs to carry in courts, offices, etc., as long as they are not a party or witness in a case that is then being heard in that court. In larger counties like Harris and Dallas Counties, most folks have no reason to enter a court building unless they are involved in a case. In smaller counties, courts are often in multi-use buildings and this is where my bill will have the greatest impact in terms of courts and court buildings. Spectators will be able to carry in courtroom, but those typically are few in number.

Chas.

[Scott Farkus]

Are courthouses, in their entirety, on the list of places that we plan on trying to remove from prohibited places?

All places that law enforcement officers are allowed to carry firearms should apply to LTC holders. The only places they have to disarm are secured portions of jails and prisons. Courthouses, including court rooms, even off duty, police can carry either openly or concealed. TABC 51% locations, LEOs can carry. Professional, collegiate, and high school sporting events are ok for LEOs. All Texas school district premises, on duty or off are ok for police to carry. There is no sound reason to restrict those of us with LTC from carrying in these locations also. We have proven ourselves to be even more law abiding than LEOs, and it is only the prevailing attitudes of those who think only the police should be armed, that have kept us from having that freedom. Of course that still only applies to LTC holders, and doesn't touch on Constitutional Carry.

I've wondered about the "courthouse" prohibition myself. I always figured it was either one of the many compromises that was needed to get concealed carry passed, or it had to do with guns being in the proximity of criminal defendants at trials or something.

Yes, it's time we got rid of all these off-limit locations. It's needlessly confusing and as we are seeing, even in Texas local governments can't be trusted not to abuse even minimal amounts of discretion in their efforts to thwart the clear will of the Legislature.

[TreyHouston]

Ofcourse I agree with Charles!!!! I would LOVE TO SEE THIS IN 2017!!!!

As ive also said, a fall back would be to let then have the dang courthouses and in compromise lift all bans on LTC holders for all other locations, yes, including schools.

[KLB]

I'm just curious how much you internet lawyers charge per hour.

Sorry you didn't get the joke.

I liked the joke, but I wasn't wearing my glasses. I thought the emoji I picked was smiling.

[mojo84]

I'm just curious how much you internet lawyers charge per hour.

Sorry you didn't get the joke.

I liked the joke, but I wasn't wearing my glasses. I thought the emoji I picked was smiling.

[NotRPB]

Are courthouses, in their entirety, on the list of places that we plan on trying to remove from prohibited places?

All places that law enforcement officers are allowed to carry firearms should apply to LTC holders. The only places they have to disarm are secured portions of jails and prisons. Courthouses, including court rooms, even off duty, police can carry either openly or concealed. TABC 51% locations, LEOs can carry. Professional, collegiate, and high school sporting events are ok for LEOs. All Texas school district premises, on duty or off are ok for police to carry. There is no sound reason to restrict those of us with LTC from carrying in these locations also. We have proven ourselves to be even more law abiding than LEOs, and it is only the prevailing attitudes of those who think only the police should be armed, that have kept us from having that freedom. Of course that still only applies to LTC holders, and doesn't touch on Constitutional Carry.

If I recall correctly, Charles indicated his position is those directly involved in the court proceeding or related to those that are involved should not be allowed to carry in the courtrooms. That is off the top of my head and my recollection may be off some.

I can accept that restriction as I know court cases can get very heated and emotions can run very high.

You are correct. The bill I drafted for the 2017 session allows LTCs to carry in courts, offices, etc., as long as they are not a party or witness in a case that is then being heard in that court. In larger counties like Harris and Dallas Counties, most folks have no reason to enter a court building unless they are involved in a case. In smaller counties, courts are often in multi-use buildings and this is where my bill will have the greatest impact in terms of courts and court buildings. Spectators will be able to carry in courtroom, but those typically are few in number.

Chas.

GOOD !!!
I can't currently go to the Texas Department of Public Safety Office in the Courthouse Annex here (yet) (Metal Detector and armed Sheriff by it)
Just yesterday wasn't allowed to enter Courthouse Annex to renew car registration sticker at Tax Assessor's office (Luckily Tax Assessor has a drive through window so I used that instead)

Interesting:
Legal Assistant/Paralegal filing a petition/motion in Clerk's office etc ... isn't a party/witness

Just brainstorming what might arise in conversations on the House/Senate hearings/Floor
I'm unclear in certain situations:
Executor/Administrator in a Probate case, going to Clerk's office in Harris County Courthouse to get say copies of Letters Testamentary
Guardian ...
well anyone who might be a party in Clerk's office in Courthouse filing/picking up papers, not in the Courtroom, but in the clerk's office

Anxious to see that Bill get passed !!
Thank you !!!