walmart asking for chl

[Right2Carry]

You know there is nothing on my LTC that isn't on my Drivers License and how many times do we show it. I don't see the big deal at all. it looks like members of this forum have reported no issues when OC in Wal-Mart so once again we have people freaking out before anything has happened!

[mojo84]

I believe the 'well, we have to make sure the person is legal' is a cop-out. Since open carry is legal, even though it requires a license, then no one should have reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally openly carrying a handgun. If there is probable cause to indicate the person may not be legal, then they can ask the person to leave, OR, they can call the police and advise why they feel this person needs to be checked out. TABC needs to accept that a licensee shouldn't have to confront someone who is more than likely legally carrying openly.

Keith, Respectfuly, it is not a cop-out on the part of Wal-Mart until TABC changes their rules. I am not a huge fan of Wal-Mart. However, I see their point. They are a big visible target. Until TABC changes their rules, we should look to them as being the one causing this issue. We all have to realize the TABC rules were put in place long before open carry came along. Until they change the rules, Wal-Mart and other retailers have too much at risk not to follow the rules.

Maybe Steve Rothstein can shed some light on this and let us know how much of a concern it should be for Wal-Mart and what are the chances TABC will update their rules.

[Les Miles]

I OC'ed at the Walmart in Longview on 4th Street today. Walked by the door greeter and she spoke to me. No one mentioned the XD on my hip.

[jt88]

Just OC'd in Wally World for about thirty minutes while doing some random shopping. Once again, no one said anything to me. It was 4am and there were employees everywhere restocking the shelves. Stopped and chatted with several.

No one cares about OC if you're not trying to make a scene.

[DaveT]

This is a situation where being polite to the Wal-Mart staff will go a long, long way in making them feel comfortable with open carry. If you're OCing in their store and they ask to see it, show them your CHL and all the while be cheerful, polite, and act like its the most normal thing in the world. It will ease their anxiety and make you seem like you aren't some weirdo. It'll make the OC crowd look a lot better too and may give them pause to re-evaluate their own assumptions about OC based on what they've seen on news reports vs. what they're now seeing in real life

Best post I've read on this thread, I concur 100% !

[Countryside]

If someone at Walmart asks to see your LTC, just do the following:
1. Act startled and alarmed
2. Back away excitedly and ask "Who are you and what do you want?"
3. Look down an empty aisle, point and then ask with wide-eyes "Did...did you see them?"
4. Look down at your gun, touch the grips and say "My grips glow when Orcs are near!"
5. Run out frantically shouting "You shall not pass!"

[Keith B]

I believe the 'well, we have to make sure the person is legal' is a cop-out. Since open carry is legal, even though it requires a license, then no one should have reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally openly carrying a handgun. If there is probable cause to indicate the person may not be legal, then they can ask the person to leave, OR, they can call the police and advise why they feel this person needs to be checked out. TABC needs to accept that a licensee shouldn't have to confront someone who is more than likely legally carrying openly.

Keith, Respectfuly, it is not a cop-out on the part of Wal-Mart until TABC changes their rules. I am not a huge fan of Wal-Mart. However, I see their point. They are a big visible target. Until TABC changes their rules, we should look to them as being the one causing this issue. We all have to realize the TABC rules were put in place long before open carry came along. Until they change the rules, Wal-Mart and other retailers have too much at risk not to follow the rules.

Maybe Steve Rothstein can shed some light on this and let us know how much of a concern it should be for Wal-Mart and what are the chances TABC will update their rules.

I disagree. The reason being the onus in carrying an unlicensed handgun into an establishment that sells alcohol for off-premise consumption is on the carrier. If they are carrying illegally, then they will be charged for UCW under 46.02. Due to the fact that open carry IS legal with a license, TABC would have a really hard time in convicting a business for allowing someone who is open carrying to stay in their establishment, unless there were substantiating issues that indicated the individual was not legally carrying. It's no different than you driving through a car wash and them asking to see your drivers license because you are operating a motor vehicle. There is no reason to believe the person is not legal, and touting that they could lose their license due to it is a stretch.

And yes, I know what TABC rules say, but they are now superseded by the new open carry law, so they have to adapt to the fact that it will be happening and a licensee cannot be required to try and validate every person that might come in openly carrying a handgun.

[mojo84]

Hopefully TABC will update their rules because they would not have to wait to get a conviction in order to suspend or terminate a permit. In addition to the legal fees to appeal such an action by TABC, the retailer would lose revenue from not being able to sell alcohol during the appeal process.

There is enough uncertainty involved in this situation I am no ready to say Wal-Mart is copping-out.

I use the same argument about cops checking stopping and checking for an LTC. I just think this is different since a government entity with significant power makes and enforces their rules.

[Keith B]

Hopefully TABC will update their rules because they would not have to wait to get a conviction in order to suspend or terminate a permit. In addition to the legal fees to appeal such an action by TABC, the retailer would lose revenue from not being able to sell alcohol during the appeal process.

There is enough uncertainty involved in this situation I am no ready to say Wal-Mart is copping-out.

I use the same argument about cops checking stopping and checking for an LTC. I just think this is different since a government entity with significant power makes and enforces their rules.

Yeah, I know there could possibly be an issue with an overzealous TABC agent wanting to be a jerk because their rules have not been properly updated. However, I think it is way overboard for any business to say they have to check your license or post 30.07 signs just to keep someone from openly carrying into their business because they MIGHT not have a concealed carry license and be carrying illegally and they were allowing them to stay in the business.

[MeMelYup]

This is what TABC has to say on the subject.

"ABC §11.61. CANCELLATION OR SUSPENSION OF PERMIT.
(e) Except as provided by Subsection (f) or (i), the commission or administrator shall cancel an original or renewal permit if it is found, after notice and hearing, that the permittee knowingly allowed a person to possess a firearm in a building on the licensed premises. This subsection does not apply to a person:
(1) who holds a security officer commission issued under Chapter 1702, Occupations
Code, if;
(A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person’s duties as a security
officer,
(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and
(C) the weapon is in plain view;
(2) who is a peace officer;
(3) who is a permittee or an employee of a permittee if the person is supervising the
operation of the premises; or
(4) who possesses a concealed handgun the person is licensed to carry under Subchapter
H, Chapter 411, Government Code, unless the person is on the premises of a business
described by Section 46.035(b)(1), Penal Code.
---
Last amended by Acts 2013, 83rd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1302 (H.B. 3142), Sec. 2, eff. June 14, 2013. "
Evidently this law has not been updated to reflect licensed open carry.

[cb1000rider]

That's the reg, but have they indicated that they'd be looking to enforce if Walmart doesn't actively check? Seems kinda capricious to me, but there are a bunch of people in government jobs with way too much time...

[JP171]

Judging from some of the acrimonious and sometimes combative posts of late, I would not mind if every OC got asked to show his/her license. You never know otherwise, eh?

my answer is no you can't see it, if I have to leave so be it but your not seeing anything you don't have a legal right or requirement to see so (explative)

You sir, are why there's an increased number of 30.06 signs appearing.
Why can't you just be happy you can now open carry?

to OG and yourself, I don't open carry at all, however if they ask to see my license because they may think I have a weapon I have the right to tell them no, they can certainly tell me I can't go into the store, fine, I will leave but a private citizen demanding my papers is going to be dealt with the same as anyone violating my rights period

JP, to be honest in this discussion, no one said they are asking concealed carriers. This entire discussion has been about asking people that are open carrying.

mojo I understand that but it still makes me grind my teeth to hear all the people here defending them when the general timbre here hasa always been the only people that you have to show to are police. as far as Wal mart asking it is NOT wal marts policy as far as I have been told yet to even ask. like I said before they can tell me if I am open carrying to leave yep but they ain't seeing a darn thing period and if I leave they can call whomever they choose and squak all they want, if a cop stops me then I'll show it to the cop and tell him why I refused, they have absolutely no need to see your license they have no duty to even ask it is NOT their problem if you don't have a license

[G.A. Heath]

I did OC on Jan 1, just like I said I would, and today I OC'd again when I had to run to Walmart and get a micro SD Card. I went in to Walmart, did my thing with my Sig P220 on my hip, paid out, and left. No one asked for my license once.

[nightmare69]

Local news had a story over Walmart checking licenses per TABC. The also mentioned they don't allow open carry of long guns either.

[Liberty]

Yeah, I know there could possibly be an issue with an overzealous TABC agent wanting to be a jerk because their rules have not been properly updated. However, I think it is way overboard for any business to say they have to check your license or post 30.07 signs just to keep someone from openly carrying into their business because they MIGHT not have a concealed carry license and be carrying illegally and they were allowing them to stay in the business.

While it maybe unlikely that the TABC would prosecute or pursue this, There is a lot at stake.. Walmart is a huge target.. lots of money at stake. Who can blame Walmart for not wanting to take a chance.