Improper signs and results

[loktite]

Well said TAM, well said.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Well some good news is that there are already discussions being had about decriminalizing 30.06 completely (like Oklahoma) next session so maybe it won't matter at all before long for concealed carry at least.

By whom is this being discussed?

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

As of January 1, unless it's a place otherwise prohibited, ignoring or not seeing a 30.06 or .07 sign is a Class C misdemeanor with a max $200 fine.

If you are verbally asked to leave and don't it's criminal trespass.

Violation of 30.06 or 30.07 is a criminal trespass whether it is a Class A or Class B misdemeanor.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Why cause an issue?
Any sign posted is conveying the intent
The more it is pushed the worse it may become
Win the battle lose the war so to say

I saw one last night at Scotty p's in Firewheel Mall area, a statement was made, notice was given

If gun carriers have to follow all the relevant laws why shouldn't private businesses?

Businesses are not violating the law if they post a legally insufficient 30.06 or 30.07 sign. You want to force them to post a big 30.07 sign, but that's not your call. If they post a small sign purporting to ban open-carry, then they have not violated any law. They have provided a courtesy notice that open-carry is not welcome and you have every reason to expect verbal notice if you do not appreciate the courtesy notice that was given.

Chas.

[Owlan]

As of January 1, unless it's a place otherwise prohibited, ignoring or not seeing a 30.06 or .07 sign is a Class C misdemeanor with a max $200 fine.

If you are verbally asked to leave and don't it's criminal trespass.

Violation of 30.06 or 30.07 is a criminal trespass whether it is a Class A or Class B misdemeanor.

Chas.

If my interpretation is correct, violation of 30.06 or 30.07 is criminal trespass, yes, but it is now only a Class C misdemeanor with a maximum $200 fine (still criminal trespass), unless verbal notice is given and the licenseholder fails to depart (in which case it is a Class A misdemeanor). Is this your interpretation as well, or no?

[Charles L. Cotton]

As of January 1, unless it's a place otherwise prohibited, ignoring or not seeing a 30.06 or .07 sign is a Class C misdemeanor with a max $200 fine.

If you are verbally asked to leave and don't it's criminal trespass.

Violation of 30.06 or 30.07 is a criminal trespass whether it is a Class A or Class B misdemeanor.

Chas.

If my interpretation is correct, violation of 30.06 or 30.07 is criminal trespass, yes, but it is now only a Class C misdemeanor with a maximum $200 fine (still criminal trespass), unless verbal notice is given and the licenseholder fails to depart (in which case it is a Class A misdemeanor). Is this your interpretation as well, or no?

The Code is clear and there's no interpretation required.

Chas.

[parabelum]

I can appreciate the passion to address whether a sign is within the judicial constraints, however, I simply voice my dissent by taking my money elsewhere. There are plenty of businesses out there who are supportive and who are not contorting themselves into a political pc pretzels to either ban all guns from their promises, or even more cleverly, allow CC/ ban OC so that their financial losses are somewhat mitigated. In the end, they are all same to me.
Either you respect my rights or you don't. It's that simple.
Kind of like being pregnant you know...either you are or you aren't.

[JALLEN]

Here is a scenario:

You and a small group of friends meet at a restaurant for dinner. On the way in, you notice a clearly invalid 30.06 sign near the door. Your pistol is concealed, so no worries.

During dinner, you are asked to pass the catsup and, half standing, reach across the large table to hand it to another. A few minutes later, the hostess stops by and tells you that your pistol was noticed while you were stretched out across the table, that weapons are not allowed in the restaurant, and you must either take it to your car, and would then be welcome to return, or leave if not.

1. Do you take the pistol out to the car and return, weaponless? Or

2. Point out that the sign out front is non compliant, therefore meaningless, and return to your chicken fried steak? Or

3. Leave promptly and do not return, leaving the bill unpaid? The others finish their meal and pay their portion. Or

4. The entire party leaves right then, without paying?

[TVGuy]

Here is a scenario:

You and a small group of friends meet at a restaurant for dinner. On the way in, you notice a clearly invalid 30.06 sign near the door. Your pistol is concealed, so no worries.

During dinner, you are asked to pass the catsup and, half standing, reach across the large table to hand it to another. A few minutes later, the hostess stops by and tells you that your pistol was noticed while you were stretched out across the table, that weapons are not allowed in the restaurant, and you must either take it to your car, and would then be welcome to return, or leave if not.

1. Do you take the pistol out to the car and return, weaponless? Or

2. Point out that the sign out front is non compliant, therefore meaningless, and return to your chicken fried steak? Or

3. Leave promptly and do not return, leaving the bill unpaid? The others finish their meal and pay their portion. Or

4. The entire party leaves right then, without paying?

#1 then ask to speak with the GM. Have a polite and rational conversation that will determine if I will return.

[Lena]

For me I would say your do not have a legal sign but with your request I will gladly comply and leave.
1st if I saw the sign I would not have entered legal or not.

[JALLEN]

Here is a scenario:

You and a small group of friends meet at a restaurant for dinner. On the way in, you notice a clearly invalid 30.06 sign near the door. Your pistol is concealed, so no worries.

During dinner, you are asked to pass the catsup and, half standing, reach across the large table to hand it to another. A few minutes later, the hostess stops by and tells you that your pistol was noticed while you were stretched out across the table, that weapons are not allowed in the restaurant, and you must either take it to your car, and would then be welcome to return, or leave if not.

1. Do you take the pistol out to the car and return, weaponless? Or

2. Point out that the sign out front is non compliant, therefore meaningless, and return to your chicken fried steak? Or

3. Leave promptly and do not return, leaving the bill unpaid? The others finish their meal and pay their portion. Or

4. The entire party leaves right then, without paying?

#1 then ask to speak with the GM. Have a polite and rational conversation that will determine if I will return.

And that discussion would be what? The policy is theoretically not negotiable.

[TVGuy]

#1 then ask to speak with the GM. Have a polite and rational conversation that will determine if I will return.

And that discussion would be what? The policy is theoretically not negotiable.

Make my case of why they shouldn't restrict CC - respectfully.

Let him/her know we would be dining elsewhere in the future because of the policy.

[Owlan]

As of January 1, unless it's a place otherwise prohibited, ignoring or not seeing a 30.06 or .07 sign is a Class C misdemeanor with a max $200 fine.

If you are verbally asked to leave and don't it's criminal trespass.

Violation of 30.06 or 30.07 is a criminal trespass whether it is a Class A or Class B misdemeanor.

Chas.

If my interpretation is correct, violation of 30.06 or 30.07 is criminal trespass, yes, but it is now only a Class C misdemeanor with a maximum $200 fine (still criminal trespass), unless verbal notice is given and the licenseholder fails to depart (in which case it is a Class A misdemeanor). Is this your interpretation as well, or no?

The Code is clear and there's no interpretation required.

Chas.

Interpretation is a completely involuntary function of the human brain based on external stimuli.

[parabelum]

Here is a scenario:

You and a small group of friends meet at a restaurant for dinner. On the way in, you notice a clearly invalid 30.06 sign near the door. Your pistol is concealed, so no worries.

During dinner, you are asked to pass the catsup and, half standing, reach across the large table to hand it to another. A few minutes later, the hostess stops by and tells you that your pistol was noticed while you were stretched out across the table, that weapons are not allowed in the restaurant, and you must either take it to your car, and would then be welcome to return, or leave if not.

1. Do you take the pistol out to the car and return, weaponless? Or

2. Point out that the sign out front is non compliant, therefore meaningless, and return to your chicken fried steak? Or

3. Leave promptly and do not return, leaving the bill unpaid? The others finish their meal and pay their portion. Or

4. The entire party leaves right then, without paying?

#1 based on the options above.

As for me personally, I'd go somewhere else. Establishment like that doesn't deserve my money, or my frustration.

[TexasRifleman]

As of January 1, unless it's a place otherwise prohibited, ignoring or not seeing a 30.06 or .07 sign is a Class C misdemeanor with a max $200 fine.

If you are verbally asked to leave and don't it's criminal trespass.

Violation of 30.06 or 30.07 is a criminal trespass whether it is a Class A or Class B misdemeanor.

Chas.

If my interpretation is correct, violation of 30.06 or 30.07 is criminal trespass, yes, but it is now only a Class C misdemeanor with a maximum $200 fine (still criminal trespass), unless verbal notice is given and the licenseholder fails to depart (in which case it is a Class A misdemeanor). Is this your interpretation as well, or no?

The Code is clear and there's no interpretation required.

Chas.

I do not believe a violation of 30.06 or 07 rises to the level of Criminal Trespass Charles and I challenge you to show how that is possible.

The penal code for 30.05, criminal trespass, specifically says that it's a defense to prosecution for Criminal Trespass if the sole charge is carrying under authority of a CHL\LTC.

Straight from 30.05:


Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:

(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.

BUT THEN

It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying:
(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
(i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster.

There is no possible way that it's Criminal Trespass when the penal code for Criminal Trespass says it's NOT Criminal Trespass by specifically giving an affirmative defense.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. 30.06 AND 30.07 stand alone as criminal law and a violation of one or the other is simply a violation of that section. You have an affirmative defense if you're charged with violating 30.05.

There is no way it's criminal trespass. It's simple trespass, even says so in the name:

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN
Sec. 30.07. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH AN OPENLY CARRIED HANDGUN