/dash-cam-video-shows-how-simple-traffic-stop-quickly-escalated-when-driver-informed-officer-of-concealed-carry-permit

[VMI77]

1) He should NOT have asked why he was being pulled over at that point. By asking the question at that point, he immediately escalated the situation (IMO)

Baloney. The officers escalated. This isn't North Korea where we have to be obedient serfs that don't dare question our "rulers."

[McKnife]

Any officer worth his/her salt is going to introduce himself and the reason why you were pulled in over in the first 5 seconds of the stop.

"Hello, my name is Officer ___ of the ____ Department and I pulled you over because ________. I need to see your license and proof of insurance, please."

Any cop who can't do the above needs to be relieved of his or her badge.

Per the video, the cop appears to have overreacted simply because of a question and the legally-carried gun. The cop should be relieved of his badge and prohibited from law enforcement in this state.

[Countryside]

Speaking as having had 10 years in LE with patrolman experience and field training officer experience there is something missing here. The officers didn't seem to be hateful or rude, but neither did the driver. When they asked if he was carrying and where he was carrying his weapon, after he answered them they responded with a rather calm "okay." The officers technically "Instanterd" the citations...rather than giving the person 10 days to appear they are taken into custody and appear sooner before a magistrate. But doing that is highly unusual...it is rarely done unless there are special circumstances. It has been done if someone is a suspect in another crime and they need to be brought in for questioning but there is not enough probable cause to arrest. The officer calling for backup to make a class C misdemeanor arrest is very unusual. If the officer felt threatened he would have stayed with his vehicle with his weapon drawn and used a felony traffic take-down method. The whole situation is just odd...so someone...somewhere is not revealing something....or trying to cover something.

[SA_Steve]

When I've been stopped the LEO always asks "do you know why I stopped you ?"
Looking for a fast confession I suppose...

[srothstein]

A couple points to remember:

1. All traffic offenses in Texas are crimes except for a red light camera ticket. You can be arrested for any crime in Texas except that you must be offered one chance to sign a ticket for speeding or having an open container of alcohol. This went to SCOTUS a couple years ago and was upported. I believe the case was styled as Atwood v. Lago Vista but I may have the name wrong (city is right).

2. This is just one side of a story and a badly presented one at that. We have the driver's claim that he was only arrested because he was carrying but no rebuttal at all from the other side. They declined to talk about it at all.

3. The video was very heavily edited and we do not know what else happened. At least one instruction of the police was clearly NOT obeyed. The driver was told to exit the vehicle and walk to the back end with his hands on his head. When he got out of the car, the officer's were cuffing him there by the door, which indicates he did not comply with their instructions and was probably told more than once to exit. Also you will see his hands were no where near his head and one arm was still swinging around as the officer cuffed him. This is not enough for me to say he resisted but I do think he did not cooperated either.

4. I agree that the officer did not follow the protocol I was taught for traffic stops. Called the seven step approach, the officer should first greet the person, identify himself, identify his authority, tell the person why he was stopped, and then ask for the DL and insurance. It quickly becomes an almost routine speech like "Good morning, I am Officer Rothstein of the San Antonio Police Department. I stopped you today for exceeding the posted speed limit. May I please see your driver's license and proof of financial responsibility?" Notice that the wording is very polite, does not accuse (no I stopped you because you were speeding) and complies with the law (we need proof of financial responsibility not insurance, it could be a bond posted or self-insurance, etc.). This is good tactics to avoid problems with the driver (as happened in this video) but is not a law or a written policy in any departments that I am aware of.


Overall, I think there is much more to this story than appears in this article. The police were not as professional as I would like and the driver was not as cooperative as he claimed.

[AJSully421]

Any officer worth his/her salt is going to introduce himself and the reason why you were pulled in over in the first 5 seconds of the stop.

"Hello, my name is Officer ___ of the ____ Department and I pulled you over because ________. I need to see your license and proof of insurance, please."

Snip

I came here to post exactly this.

[Pariah3j]

The video was edited, but it was edited for what was probably the 10 o'clock news. I don't trust the national media outlets or at least take anything they say with a grain of salt, but the local ones typically aren't bad about blatantly editing things just to make a story. They obviously believed his story or sided with him after seeing the entire video. I think it was edited to show the highlights. But until the full video unedited gets released, we won't know for sure.

[EEllis]

Asking why he was being pulled over is escalating the situation from a minor traffic stop to an arrest?

I believe in being polite, but if we're judging videos here, I've seen plenty where people were down right rude and irate to the officer and they get a ticket and a "have a nice day" from the officer.

Who said that? I believe it was pointed out as something the driver did , and I won't even call it wrong, but it can lead to conflict. Instead of just letting the cop control the situation the driver is attempting to assert control. Obviously that can lead to increased conflict. We have no way of knowing that it had anything at all to do with the arrest but generally speaking it's not something that will improve your interaction but there you are.

Asking why you've been pulled over is an attempt to assert control? That's a stretch. It's not as if he said WHATS THE PROBLEM?
He also has the right to ask if he was being detained or if he were free to go without repercussions.

He was being pulled over so of course he is being detained and yes interrupting then is a attempt to assert control or to take it away from the cop.

[casp625]

Asking why he was being pulled over is escalating the situation from a minor traffic stop to an arrest?

I believe in being polite, but if we're judging videos here, I've seen plenty where people were down right rude and irate to the officer and they get a ticket and a "have a nice day" from the officer.

Who said that? I believe it was pointed out as something the driver did , and I won't even call it wrong, but it can lead to conflict. Instead of just letting the cop control the situation the driver is attempting to assert control. Obviously that can lead to increased conflict. We have no way of knowing that it had anything at all to do with the arrest but generally speaking it's not something that will improve your interaction but there you are.

Asking why you've been pulled over is an attempt to assert control? That's a stretch. It's not as if he said WHATS THE PROBLEM?
He also has the right to ask if he was being detained or if he were free to go without repercussions.

He was being pulled over so of course he is being detained and yes interrupting then is a attempt to assert control or to take it away from the cop.

Yep, and a response with guns drawn was the appropriate answer.

[baldeagle]

I'm not saying anything until I get to see a completely unedited video. Anything else is pure speculation.

[handog]

An internal investigation conducted by the Rosenburg PD determined the officers involved followed all proper procedures.

[Glockster]

An internal investigation conducted by the Rosenburg PD determined the officers involved followed all proper procedures.

I thought that I also read that the officer is now no longer with the department?

[Countryside]

"He was being pulled over so of course he is being detained and yes interrupting then is a attempt to assert control or to take it away from the cop."

"Yep, and a response with guns drawn was the appropriate answer."

It may be rude, but it is not dangerous nor illegal. Using your logic, if I am speaking with someone and they interrupt me...the fact that I have been interrupted means I am in danger and I can pull my weapon on them? Interrupting a peace officer is probably cause to draw weapons on someone??? Surely that is not what you mean.

Also, one officer had his weapon drawn but he did not have it pointed at the driver...he had back behind him. The main officer did not draw his weapon that I could see.

I never said that officers cannot instanter a citation...I said it is unusual and only done in special circumstances.
There is nothing that the driver did that is OBVIOUS to have warranted a backup unit and the instantering of the horrible, vicious crime of not using a turn signal. The officers were firm but not abusive, and the driver himself seemed upset but not hostile nor aggressive.
Again, there is more going on here than meets the eye...OR everyone (the driver and the officers) over-reacted.

[Glockster]

I don't have all the facts, and have only seen the same edited video. So I can't say one way or the other who was at fault, or most at fault. But what does seem quite clear to me is that this is yet another situation where the driver may have greatly benefited from the use of an on body recording device, an on dash video camera, and so on.

[thenick_ttu]

In addition to the driver asking why he was pulled over, it seems as though he was being vague in his answers to the police. The police officer asked him where his gun was. You can't hear the driver's response but I assume it was something along the lines of "on my body" because the officer immediately responded with "where on your body?"

All of these factors together could easily make the officer uncomfortable and result in the response we see.