What is a belt holster

[mojo84]

I originally wanted to know if we had reached a consensus and we haven't.

The bottom line is this...

1. Lot's of guessing
2. Lot's of assuming
3. Lot's of making determinations based on guessing and assuming
4. Lot's of willingness to bet one's possible conviction on the defense of "common sense" in a world where prosecutors take pride in their convictions.

Of course, I asked for it. Since a consensus of the forum doesn't determine the actual legal definition. I just thought someone might have gotten some insight on the subject.

The reason this might be an important point is this. It is almost certain that a not a few persons might have to explain their openly carried firearm to a LEO who is responding to a MWAG report. The close scrutiny of the LEO in the course of doing his investigation will most probably bring close scrutiny to all aspects of the situation including whether the holster meets requirements.

No, under normal circumstances no will will notice the difference between a belt and paddle holster, of course. It's when a LEO starts taking careful interest in you, your gun, and your holster, that it might be an issue. I would think that at that very moment you would want to be in compliance especially if there is an accepted difference between the two.......as the holster industry seems to think there is!!!!!

And yes, if I don't feel comfortable with the ambiguity I will use a belt holster. I would prefer the paddle holster, and thus the question.

tex

Have you considered contacting Senator Estes' or Rep. Phillips office to see if they can offer some clarification for you? That may prove more comforting than asking on here.

Just be prepared, you may get a similar answer as to what you've received here.

[mojo84]

Just make sure it's not in your hand or stuck in your waistband without a holster.

That does bring up one thing that I've been wondering about as Texas doesn't have a brandishing law per se, and disorderly conduct covers display in a manner calculated to alarm, so wonder what will happen the first time someone is seen resting their hand on their holstered gun and someone either calls it in as a MWAG because they "touched it" or a LEO sees that and decides that it was. I bring that up because I lived in a state where OC was so "normal" that frankly both LEO and OC'ers often could be seen resting their hand on their gun, to the point that it was covered in my CHP class and the instructor made a point that doing that in front of the wrong person could become a problem for you.

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

I don't think just resting one's hand on the butt of the gun is a problem as long as the person isn't threatening to pull it on someone without justification. Keep in mind the words "manner calculated to alarm".

[goose]

<snip>

No, under normal circumstances no will will notice the difference between a belt and paddle holster, of course. It's when a LEO starts taking careful interest in you, your gun, and your holster, that it might be an issue. I would think that at that very moment you would want to be in compliance especially if there is an accepted difference between the two.......as the holster industry seems to think there is!!!!!

And yes, if I don't feel comfortable with the ambiguity I will use a belt holster. I would prefer the paddle holster, and thus the question.

tex

When I do a google search for "belt holster" I get everything returned: IWB, OWB, Paddles, slides, cowboy, thigh, fanny pack, sneaky pete, etc. I don't understand where the industry thinks that they have declared anything.

Here is a link where Guns&Ammo thinks paddle holsters are belt holsters. They may not be judge and jury, but I'll take them as a character witness any day. They agree that a belt is not required to wear a paddle, but, they refer to paddles as belt holsters repeatedly and in the title. http://www.handgunsmag.com/gear-accesso ... t-holster/

Let me ask the question a different way. Is an IWB holster with a clip not a belt holster? It doesn't use a loop. In fact I don't know of a IWB holster that uses loops. They use snaps and clips. Yes, I am sure someone can find an IWB that uses loops, but they would not be the norm. In terms of physical connection to the belt it is a paddle holster with the "paddle" (clip) on the outboard side of the holster instead of the inboard side. A paddle is just, IMO, a really big clip on the inboard side. I would be shocked beyond shocked if an IWB holster using a clip instead of a loop or a paddle holster were ever declared not a belt holster.

Based on the article above, you might could argue that a paddle worn without a belt is suspect. I just don't see how a paddle with a belt could ever be suspect.

Next, we could start a betting pool on how soon before anyone is arrested for OCing with the wrong holster.

[Glockster]

Just make sure it's not in your hand or stuck in your waistband without a holster.

That does bring up one thing that I've been wondering about as Texas doesn't have a brandishing law per se, and disorderly conduct covers display in a manner calculated to alarm, so wonder what will happen the first time someone is seen resting their hand on their holstered gun and someone either calls it in as a MWAG because they "touched it" or a LEO sees that and decides that it was. I bring that up because I lived in a state where OC was so "normal" that frankly both LEO and OC'ers often could be seen resting their hand on their gun, to the point that it was covered in my CHP class and the instructor made a point that doing that in front of the wrong person could become a problem for you.

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

I don't think just resting one's hand on the butt of the gun is a problem as long as the person isn't threatening to pull it on someone without justification. Keep in mind the words "manner calculated to alarm".

Yes, I agree with you. But was pondering the it could happen side of things as the context it was discussed was doing so could become a problem with a less than reasonable person seeing it. I do know of a case that was like that in VA, where the guy was pointing his finger while carrying and if I recall correctly the issue of whether or not he touched his weapon in anyway came up.

[Glockster]

<snip>

Next, we could start a betting pool on how soon before anyone is arrested for OCing with the wrong holster.

That.
And not only how soon, but where that is more likely to happen.

[CoffeeNut]

Just make sure it's not in your hand or stuck in your waistband without a holster.

That does bring up one thing that I've been wondering about as Texas doesn't have a brandishing law per se, and disorderly conduct covers display in a manner calculated to alarm, so wonder what will happen the first time someone is seen resting their hand on their holstered gun and someone either calls it in as a MWAG because they "touched it" or a LEO sees that and decides that it was. I bring that up because I lived in a state where OC was so "normal" that frankly both LEO and OC'ers often could be seen resting their hand on their gun, to the point that it was covered in my CHP class and the instructor made a point that doing that in front of the wrong person could become a problem for you.

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

I've had this concern too especially with the Moms Demand Nonsense group encouraging calling 911 on open carriers. I can understand wanting to rest your hand on your openly displayed gun as you take great effort to avoid it and I imagine it gets tiring; especially for police that have full gun belts. I don't really care for it however and like quite a few citizens I am apprehensive about approaching an officer that is essentially ready to draw. I'd feel the same way if I see regular Joe in Walmart standing around pawing at his pistol. I won't be dialing 911 to report an active shooter but I will keep my distance.

I would think you'd get hit with disorderly conduct if you're dumb enough to engage in an argument with someone while your pistol is displayed and you decide to rest your hand on your holstered handgun in the heat of the argument.

If you're going to OC I would suggest getting proficient at resting your hands on your belt buckle rather than on your pistol. Problem solved.

[Glockster]

Just make sure it's not in your hand or stuck in your waistband without a holster.

That does bring up one thing that I've been wondering about as Texas doesn't have a brandishing law per se, and disorderly conduct covers display in a manner calculated to alarm, so wonder what will happen the first time someone is seen resting their hand on their holstered gun and someone either calls it in as a MWAG because they "touched it" or a LEO sees that and decides that it was. I bring that up because I lived in a state where OC was so "normal" that frankly both LEO and OC'ers often could be seen resting their hand on their gun, to the point that it was covered in my CHP class and the instructor made a point that doing that in front of the wrong person could become a problem for you.

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

I've had this concern too especially with the Moms Demand Nonsense group encouraging calling 911 on open carriers. I can understand wanting to rest your hand on your openly displayed gun as you take great effort to avoid it and I imagine it gets tiring; especially for police that have full gun belts. I don't really care for it however and like quite a few citizens I am apprehensive about approaching an officer that is essentially ready to draw. I'd feel the same way if I see regular Joe in Walmart standing around pawing at his pistol. I won't be dialing 911 to report an active shooter but I will keep my distance.

I would think you'd get hit with disorderly conduct if you're dumb enough to engage in an argument with someone while your pistol is displayed and you decide to rest your hand on your holstered handgun in the heat of the argument.

If you're going to OC I would suggest getting proficient at resting your hands on your belt buckle rather than on your pistol. Problem solved.

Yup, that's exactly who I was thinking of.

I have OC'd before and I made it a practice when standing around to hook my thumb into my front pocket. But I have seen several times where someone who is used to putting their hand in their pocket, not being able to do so because of the holster, and without thinking about it at all rest their hand on their gun. And I've seen LEOs do that a lot - maybe it is their way of ensuring that it's harder to grab it?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Six pages on "What is a belt holster"

Now 7 pages!! I have a very good friend who coined a phrase many years ago that we call the "[Name Omitted] Principle" and it goes like this. "If a woman doesn't have anything to worry about, she hasn't looked hard enough!" I think we need to add open-carry aficionados to that adage.

Chas.

[WildBill]

Going for eight pages -

I think it's interesting that many people on the forum were pleased with OC passing because they wouldn't have to worry about "printing"
or accidentally exposing their gun if the wind blew their shirt or jacket open.

So if you were not carrying concealed in a belt [or shoulder] holster, then you would still be illegally exposing your handgun.

[Kkpsiknl]

I don't think I have the time to read all of the post. So what's the answer?

[goose]

I don't think I have the time to read all of the post. So what's the answer?

Carry in a decent holster and move on. IMO

[puma guy]

Coming Soon! "What is a holster belt?"

[casp625]

For those who carry IWB: Are you going to carry in the same position OWB for OC? I tend to think that muscle memory would be beneficial but since I carry at the 4-4:30 position, I'm debating whether I should keep it there or move it closer to 3 o'clock...

[suthdj]

So can i put my holster on a belt then sling it over my head and carry as a sholder holster, inquiring minds want to know.

[Countryside]

I...I can't believe this!
All of you...ALL of you are WRONG!

THIS is a "belt holster" ....



It's a belt....holster.

Coming Soon! "What is a holster belt?"

See how perfect my post was??? It even covers your question!!

...