School Employees and the parking lot law

[StevenKN]

I was just curious as to if any of you are school employees (teachers, admin, etc) and what exactly you did in order to get approval to store your firearm in your vehicle while parked in a school parking lot? My district is still in talks about allowing certain people to carry inside the school building and have told me that they may not be allowing us to carry/store in the parking lot. I supposed I could just park across the street not in the school parking lot. I live about 30 minutes from my job so not being able to store it in the car renders my CHL pretty much useless. Any ideas/insight?

[Jumping Frog]

It is not a criminal offense to keep your gun in your car right now.

However, it does violate employer policy, so if the school searched a person's car (or the person was stupid enough to tell someone) and found a gun, that person's employment could be terminated.

You need to make that choice for yourself.

Personally, I was employed from 2004-2009 by an employer with the exact same scenario. It was not illegal for me to have a gun in the car, but I would have been fired if it was found. My gun was in my car every day, so you know where I placed my priorities.

Whatever you do, don't talk about guns or ask questions about guns at school. Once you are on that radar, it is hard to get off the screen.

BTW, I see it is your first post, so welcome.

[jmra]

I work at a high school. Handbook says no guns on property. I am reluctant to ignore this policy as several times a year dogs are brought in to sniff out drugs in parked cars. Don't know if they are trained for detecting firearms/ammo but not willing to risk it.
If I worked at the elementary campus, no brainer.

[Kyle L]

I work at a school in the East Texas area. I am the "Technology Guy" for the district and I go to each of our campuses every few days. I read our "employee handbook" and it was (of course) very unclear and had a lot of room for individual interpretation. I asked the LEO that is assigned to the district what his thoughts were and he said he believed it was AGAINST policy to carry in my vehicle. I read the exact policy (word for word) to him and he then stated, "well, that is not very clear is it".

What I did was send an email to my Superintendent and asked for his guidance as it related to my carrying in my vehicle. He responded that as a CHL carrying citizen and a school employee I would be allowed to carry in my vehicle as long as I had my CHL. I have it in writing from him so I don't worry about it anymore.

[jmra]

Very nice. Wish that opinion was widely held.

[n5wd]

Very nice. Wish that opinion was widely held.

If you're a member of an association, ask THEIR legal folks for their interpretation. After all, it's them who are going to represent you if the district does try to terminate you (or, more lilkely, fails to renew your contract). The district I work for says as long as it's not in one of the buildings, and not immediately near where someone is conducting a curriculuar (classroom exercise) or extra-curricular (like the rocket team I used to sponsor), then it's within the district's guidelines, which is based on the law regarding weapons on school campuses.

Wayne

[nightmare69]

I work for a public school also who prohibits weapons on school property. I found out though from the school attorney that if you have a valid CHL then you CAN have a firearm in your personal vehicle on school property. This is state law. I did some more research and found a article from Texas attorney general....

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/op ... ga0972.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the summary...

An employer subject to section 52.061 of the Labor Code may not ban the transport and storage of handguns in locked private vehicles by employees with concealed handgun licenses in employee parking areas by posting the notice authorized by section 30.06 of the Penal Code.

A federally approved facility security plan under either the Maritime Transportation Security Act or the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards is not federal law that would preempt section 52.061 of the Labor Code.

No statute of which we are aware provides a specific remedy for employees whose employers violate section 52.061. And the Legislature has not authorized this office or any other state agency to take corrective action. Despite the lack of a statutory remedy, an aggrieved employee may, depending on the circumstances, have the ability to sue an offending employer under the Uniform Declaratory Judgments Act.

So if you have a CHL and work for a ISD in Texas you can have a firearm in your personal vehicle on school property and there is nothing the school can do about it. School policy does CANNOT supercede state law.

After what I and the attorney told the school they went in and added in their school policy that if you have a CHL then you can keep your firearm in your personal vehicle on property.

[Keith B]

I work for a public school also who prohibits weapons on school property. I found out though from the school attorney that if you have a valid CHL then you CAN have a firearm in your personal vehicle on school property. This is state law. I did some more research and found a article from Texas attorney general....

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/op ... ga0972.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the summary...

An employer subject to section 52.061 of the Labor Code may not ban the transport and storage of handguns in locked private vehicles by employees with concealed handgun licenses in employee parking areas by posting the notice authorized by section 30.06 of the Penal Code.

A federally approved facility security plan under either the Maritime Transportation Security Act or the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards is not federal law that would preempt section 52.061 of the Labor Code.

No statute of which we are aware provides a specific remedy for employees whose employers violate section 52.061. And the Legislature has not authorized this office or any other state agency to take corrective action. Despite the lack of a statutory remedy, an aggrieved employee may, depending on the circumstances, have the ability to sue an offending employer under the Uniform Declaratory Judgments Act.

So if you have a CHL and work for a ISD in Texas you can have a firearm in your personal vehicle on school property and there is nothing the school can do about it. School policy does CANNOT supercede state law.

After what I and the attorney told the school they went in and added in their school policy that if you have a CHL then you can keep your firearm in your personal vehicle on property.

Wrong. Your ISD's attorney may have read it and they changed the policy, but the law specifically exempts a school distrcit from having to allow it. However, a school district has always had the capability to allow storage on thier parking lot OR carry in the schools by a CHL holder if they so chose to do so. Below is the law as enrolled during last session.

Here is the

S.B. No. 321

AN ACT
relating to an employee's transportation and storage of certain firearms or ammunition while on certain property owned or controlled by the employee's employer.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
SECTION 1. Chapter 52, Labor Code, is amended by adding Subchapter G to read as follows:
SUBCHAPTER G. RESTRICTIONS ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE TRANSPORTATION OR STORAGE OF CERTAIN FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION
Sec. 52.061. RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.
Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not:(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by state or federal law; or
(2) apply to:
(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of the employee's employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of the employee's duties;
(B) a school district;
(C) an open-enrollment charter school, as defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;
(D) a private school, as defined by Section 22.081, Education Code;(E) property owned or controlled by a person, other than the employer, that is subject to a valid, unexpired oil, gas, or other mineral lease that contains a provision prohibiting the possession of firearms on the property; or
(F) property owned or leased by a chemical manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials, except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees that is outside of a secured and restricted area:
(i) that contains the physical plant;
(ii) that is not open to the public; and
(iii) the ingress into which is constantly monitored by security personnel.
(b) Section 52.061 does not prohibit an employer from prohibiting an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, from possessing a firearm the employee is otherwise authorized by law to possess on the premises of the employer's business. In this subsection, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.
Sec. 52.063. IMMUNITY FROM CIVIL LIABILITY. (a) Except in cases of gross negligence, a public or private employer, or the employer's principal, officer, director, employee, or agent, is not liable in a civil action for personal injury, death, property damage, or any other damages resulting from or arising out of an occurrence involving a firearm or ammunition that the employer is required to allow on the employer's property under this subchapter.
(b) The presence of a firearm or ammunition on an employer's property under the authority of this subchapter does not by itself constitute a failure by the employer to provide a safe workplace.
(c) For purposes of this section, a public or private employer, or the employer's principal, officer, director, employee, or agent, does not have a duty:
(1) to patrol, inspect, or secure:
(A) any parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees; or
(B) any privately owned motor vehicle located in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area described by Paragraph (A); or
(2) to investigate, confirm, or determine an employee's compliance with laws related to the ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition or the transportation and storage of a firearm or ammunition.
Sec. 52.064. CONSTRUCTION OF PROVISION RELATING TO IMMUNITY FROM CIVIL LIABILITY. Section 52.063 does not limit or alter the personal liability of:
(1) an individual who causes harm or injury by using a firearm or ammunition;
(2) an individual who aids, assists, or encourages another individual to cause harm or injury by using a firearm or ammunition; or
(3) an employee who transports or stores a firearm or ammunition on the property of the employee's employer but who fails to comply with the requirements of Section 52.061.
SECTION 2. Section 411.203, Government Code, is amended to read as follows:
Sec. 411.203. RIGHTS OF EMPLOYERS. This subchapter does not prevent or otherwise limit the right of a public or private employer to prohibit persons who are licensed under this subchapter from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of the business. In this section, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.
SECTION 3. The change in law made by this Act applies only to a cause of action that accrues on or after the effective date of this Act. A cause of action that accrues before that date is governed by the law as it existed immediately before the effective date of this Act, and that law is continued in effect for that purpose.
SECTION 4. This Act takes effect September 1, 2011.

[mikeloc]

Mike

[nightmare69]

[quote="nightmare69"

Wrong. Your ISD's attorney may have read it and they changed the policy, but the law specifically exempts a school distrcit from having to allow it. However, a school district has always had the capability to allow storage on thier parking lot OR carry in the schools by a CHL holder if they so chose to do so. Below is the law as enrolled during last session.

Here is what they added to the policy.

PREMISES
EXCEPTION

It is an exception to the application of this law that the property on
which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by
the District and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
Penal Code 30.06 [See also FNCG]

[Keith B]

PREMISES
EXCEPTION

It is an exception to the application of this law that the property on
which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by
the District and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
Penal Code 30.06 [See also FNCG]

That has been in 46.035 as long as CHL has been in existence. The bottom line is school districts are exempt from the parking lot exception and do not have to allow employees to be able to keep a gun in their vehicle on school property.

In your case it sounds like you work for a level headed district with a decent attorney (did I say that? ) who feels it is right for employees to be able to store their firearms in a car if they have a CHL.

Because the law has always been written that a school district can allow CHL holders to carry in the buildings, I know several of the CHL Instructors across the state have been approached by various school districts to do training for their teachers. Harrold ISD in the panhandle area has allowed teachers to carry for 3-4 years if they have a CHL and are approved by the school district process. I think we will see a lot more of a movement toward that here over the next few years.

[nightmare69]

That has been in 46.035 as long as CHL has been in existence. The bottom line is school districts are exempt from the parking lot exception and do not have to allow employees to be able to keep a gun in their vehicle on school property.

In your case it sounds like you work for a level headed district with a decent attorney (did I say that? ) who feels it is right for employees to be able to store their firearms in a car if they have a CHL.

Because the law has always been written that a school district can allow CHL holders to carry in the buildings, I know several of the CHL Instructors across the state have been approached by various school districts to do training for their teachers. Harrold ISD in the panhandle area has allowed teachers to carry for 3-4 years if they have a CHL and are approved by the school district process. I think we will see a lot more of a movement toward that here over the next few years.

[/quote]

The only people they could ban carrying are employees. I told them there is nothing they can do if a unlicensed visitor has a firearm in their vehicle carrying under the MPA act. Also any visitor who has a CHL can carry anywhere off premise. They most they could do is ask them to leave but they would never know if the person is armed anyway.

Arming teachers/staff will never happen at my ISD, they have the money to hire LEOs.

Banning employees from keeping a firearm in their personal vehicle leaves them defenseless from their commute to and from work and anywhere in between they may travel. During said commute is out of the scope of the employer.

[Keith B]

The only people they could ban carrying are employees. I told them there is nothing they can do if a unlicensed visitor has a firearm in their vehicle carrying under the MPA act. Also any visitor who has a CHL can carry anywhere off premise. They most they could do is ask them to leave but they would never know if the person is armed anyway.

Arming teachers/staff will never happen at my ISD, they have the money to hire LEOs.

Banning employees from keeping a firearm in their personal vehicle leaves them defenseless from their commute to and from work and anywhere in between they may travel. During said commute is out of the scope of the employer.

Actually, this is not 100% correct. MPA does not exempt a person carrying in their vehicle from the Gun Free School Zone Act. They can be arrested and charged under federal law if they are within 1000' of a school and unlicensed. However, the question comes up if local law enforcement can actually enforce that federal law. Either way, the school can ask the person to leave and if they don't then they can be charged with criminal trespass.

[nightmare69]

Actually, this is not 100% correct. MPA does not exempt a person carrying in their vehicle from the Gun Free School Zone Act. They can be arrested and charged under federal law if they are within 1000' of a school and unlicensed. However, the question comes up if local law enforcement can actually enforce that federal law. Either way, the school can ask the person to leave and if they don't then they can be charged with criminal trespass.

We have had high school kids bring rifles and shotguns in their vehicles on school property. Our school LEO says there is nothing he can do about it but tell them to go home and put the gun away. The DA will not prosecute them so he won't arrest them.

[Keith B]

Actually, this is not 100% correct. MPA does not exempt a person carrying in their vehicle from the Gun Free School Zone Act. They can be arrested and charged under federal law if they are within 1000' of a school and unlicensed. However, the question comes up if local law enforcement can actually enforce that federal law. Either way, the school can ask the person to leave and if they don't then they can be charged with criminal trespass.

We have had high school kids bring rifles and shotguns in their vehicles on school property. Our school LEO says there is nothing he can do about it but tell them to go home and put the gun away. The DA will not prosecute them so he won't arrest them.

I am suprised they don't suspend them. I am glad to hear that the district uses some logic in determining if they are bringing them as a threat or just inadvertantly forget they have them.