Shoot... Don't Shoot?

[bobcat50]

I'm a bit confused from something my CHL instructor said in class. I understood him to say "never, never draw your weapon unless you have already made the decision to shoot because you believe your life is in immediate danger". So, what if I do feel my life is in immediate danger but because I have drawn my weapon, but not yet shot, the threat stops, runs away, falls down begging for his life? I drew my weapon and was ready to shoot but it turns out I didn't have to. Am I in violation of the law because I didn't actually shoot the person?

[MoJo]

We carry a CCW to STOP the threat if presenting your weapon stops the threat then you win!

I'm going to get the relevant law and post it in a minute.

here they are:

§ 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of
force is justified when the use of force is justified by this
chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or
serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as
long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension
that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the
use of deadly force.

§ 9.22. NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is
immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;
(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm
clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of
reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law
proscribing the conduct; and
(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification
claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.

[WildBill]

I'm a bit confused from something my CHL instructor said in class. I understood him to say "never, never draw your weapon unless you have already made the decision to shoot because you believe your life is in immediate danger". So, what if I do feel my life is in immediate danger but because I have drawn my weapon, but not yet shot, the threat stops, runs away, falls down begging for his life? I drew my weapon and was ready to shoot but it turns out I didn't have to.

Am I in violation of the law because I didn't actually shoot the person?

No. You would be violating the law if the threat is no longer present and you shot the person.

I'm a bit confused from something my CHL instructor said in class. I understood him to say "never, never draw your weapon unless you have already made the decision to shoot because you believe your life is in immediate danger".

His advice may seem contradictory, but he is trying to say that you should not draw your weapon unless you can legally use deadly force. Of course, if the threat de-escalates and deadly force is no longer justified, you must also back down.

IANAL, and an other forum member will explain it better than me.

[gigag04]

That ideaology is constrictive, and too "one-size-fits-all" to be practical. I think what the instructor is trying to convey is the gravity of displaying your weapon. However, displaying (or drawing) a weapon should not be considered an automatic trigger pull. In fact, I would keep your finger indexed until ready to fire.

[KFP]

I have often heard people say something similar to your instructor. When I have asked for clarification from them they typically say that if you draw, you need to be prepared to use your gun. I agree with this line of thought because you've introduced a pistol that could be used against you, if you are not prepared to actually pull the trigger.

Many situations that require a firearm be used as part of the solution, will be resolved with the presence of one. Some will not. Be as prepared as possible to do what is necessary to defend yourself and your loved ones.

[Beiruty]

a Hard core criminal could provoke a CHLer to the point where the CHLer draws his gun, then if the BG felt hestitation or confusion of the CHLer, he will challenge the CHLerby saying: "Are you gona shoot me?", THe BG will either disarm the CHLer in strugle, or pull his own gun and proceed to shoot the CHLer and claim he did so in self-defense.

One has to very careful when to draw and when to shoot. To draw, better the BG has already presented a deadly wepaon or in the process of comitting a felony that justify deadly force as response.TX law is good enough to consider the the threat of deadly force is a force and where force is justifed as response. Just remeber, shooting unarmed BG does not look in the eyes of the jury. Just to remeber, when do you draw, keep shouting "show me your hands, show me your hands!" Hands kill. Distance is your friend.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

a Hard core criminal could provoke a CHLer to the point where the CHLer draws his gun, then if the BG felt hestitation or confusion of the CHLer, he will challenge the CHLerby saying: "Are you gona shoot me?", THe BG will either disarm the CHLer in strugle, or pull his own gun and proceed to shoot the CHLer and claim he did so in self-defense.

One has to very careful when to draw and when to shoot. To draw, better the BG has already presented a deadly wepaon or in the process of comitting a felony that justify deadly force as response.TX law is good enough to consider the the threat of deadly force is a force and where force is justifed as response. Just remeber, shooting unarmed BG does not look in the eyes of the jury. Just to remeber, when do you draw, keep shouting "show me your hands, show me your hands!" Hands kill. Distance is your friend.

I do not agree with that. If you are in fear for your life then you are justified to stopping the threat. One does not have to be committing a felony to be a threat to ones life and if you wait til the BG produces a deadly weapon it may be too late. The time to draw will differ from person to person but it should be when you are truly in fear for your or your loved ones lives. Also, just because the BG is unarmed does not mean that he/she cannot do harm. If someone truly feels that their life is in danger regardless if the BG is armed with a weapon or not they are legal to stop the threat.

[cbr600]

deleted

[Beiruty]

How one rude and unruley and shouting obscentity at you in the prsence of your family is considered a threat to one's life? You maybe sacred very scared and think the BG is high on some drugs and very threatening. However, this is does not constiute that the BG is threat to anyone or even has comitted an offense that justify a deadly force as a response. Your tolerance may vary.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

Nobody said anything about them just saying words. But one can threaten you and your family without a weapon. One can feel in fear for their life for many different reasons.

[jamisjockey]

We carry a CCW to STOP the threat if presenting your weapon stops the threat then you win!

I'm going to get the relevant law and post it in a minute.

here they are:

§ 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of
force is justified when the use of force is justified by this
chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or
serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as
long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension
that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the
use of deadly force.

§ 9.22. NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is
immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;
(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm
clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of
reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law
proscribing the conduct; and
(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification
claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.

You should always be prepared to use it if you draw it. But drawing it doesn't always mean using it.

[Jumping Frog]

If you are in fear for your life then you are justified to stopping the threat. One does not have to be committing a felony to be a threat to ones life and if you wait til the BG produces a deadly weapon it may be too late.

I agree.

Three points are relevant. If the BG is within Tueller Distance (21 feet), waiting to see the knife can be far too late to avoid getting slashed.

Second, even an unarmed person can present a credible fear of serious bodily injury. Since being licensed, I've read too many accounts of people dying with a single blow to the head. I also too familiar with traumatic brain injury.

Disparity of force also is a factor. It is reasonable for an obese, out of shape person aged 50-60 to be in fear of serious bodily injury when confronted by one or more unarmed BG's who are in their 20's.

For me, every potential violent encounter is an armed encounter because I am armed. If I get knocked out or knocked silly, the BG potentially now has my firearm. Therefore, I will not let someone strike me, unarmed or not.

[HotLeadSolutions]

If you are in fear for your life then you are justified to stopping the threat. One does not have to be committing a felony to be a threat to ones life and if you wait til the BG produces a deadly weapon it may be too late.

I agree.

Three points are relevant. If the BG is within Tueller Distance (21 feet), waiting to see the knife can be far too late to avoid getting slashed.

Second, even an unarmed person can present a credible fear of serious bodily injury. Since being licensed, I've read too many accounts of people dying with a single blow to the head. I also too familiar with traumatic brain injury.

Disparity of force also is a factor. It is reasonable for an obese, out of shape person aged 50-60 to be in fear of serious bodily injury when confronted by one or more unarmed BG's who are in their 20's.
For me, every potential violent encounter is an armed encounter because I am armed. If I get knocked out or knocked silly, the BG potentially now has my firearm. Therefore, I will not let someone strike me, unarmed or not.

Also consider this: We do not operate under any different laws than LEOs. There are many times that a LEO unholsters a weapon in response to a unarmed threat. Remember there is a difference between unholstering a weapon, pointing a weapon, and using the weapon.

[wford]

I for one cant change a shoot decision to a noshoot decision. A draw decision is a very grey area to me and would have to be discussed within a very tight context.

I'm a bit confused from something my CHL instructor said in class. I understood him to say "never, never draw your weapon unless you have already made the decision to shoot because you believe your life is in immediate danger". So, what if I do feel my life is in immediate danger but because I have drawn my weapon, but not yet shot, the threat stops, runs away, falls down begging for his life? I drew my weapon and was ready to shoot but it turns out I didn't have to. Am I in violation of the law because I didn't actually shoot the person?

[wford]

Hotlead said in part, "Also consider this: We do not operate under any different laws than LEOs. There are many times that a LEO unholsters a weapon in response to a unarmed threat. Remember there is a difference between unholstering a weapon, pointing a weapon, and using the weapon."

Oh my ! I hope you dont really believe this.