Signs for the CHLer

[texanjoker]

Great post. I know those signs confused me when I moved to TX.

[TLew]

Well it took me quite a bit of time, but I read over all 14 pages of this thread. The interesting thing that I have only seen pointed out once is the letters on glass. To me, this is not a contrasting background, especially if the letters are white and the tile or other flooring material in the background of the glass door is lighter in color. While I'm not sure if I would test the limits of an accurate sign outside of the contrasting color constraint, it also begs the question if a person would always see it and accidentally walk past it.

I also think another part of conspicuous is that the letters on the door don't run into other notices or warnings -- all automatic doors have warnings on them, a lot of which are in white. Thoughts?

[TLew]

Also, I just looked at our administrative policies at work and found the "Weapons-free Workplace" policy.

.001 Introduction

[COMPANY] and its subsidiaries located in the U.S. and abroad (U.S. Firms) strictly prohibit weapons of any type, whether visible or concealed, at the workplace or at any U.S. Firms-sponsored event. Weapons include, but are not limited to: firearms, knives with blades more than three inches in length, any explosive materials, and any other dangerous or deadly substance or object that could be used to harass, intimidate, or injure another person.

As used in this policy the term "workplace" means all areas in which the U.S. Firms operate, including, without limitation, any U.S. Firms premises or worksite or client's place of business; U.S. Firms' or client vehicles, public or private means of transportation while engaged in firm business; U.S. Firms-owned or leased equipment, lockers, desks, workspace, and storage facilities.

This policy shall apply even if the owner has obtained the necessary licenses or the law permits.

.002 Violations and Reporting

If an individual observes or has knowledge of a violation of this policy, whether by personnel of the U.S. Firms or others, he or she has an obligation to promptly report such violation to the appropriate supervisor, the office managing partner or the office Human Resource director.

In any instance where an individual observes or has knowledge that an imminent threat to safety of persons or property exists because of an apparent violation of this policy, he or she should immediately contact building security or the police in the absence of security. Where criminal violations are involved or suspected, appropriate law enforcement agencies will be notified.

If a violation of this policy occurs, the U.S. Firms will take whatever action is appropriate under the circumstances, up to and including termination.

The bolded part is the section I have issue with. Fine, I understand I can lose my job if I carry into work, but I'm not ok with them telling me that leaving my EDC in the car in transport to the office or client would constitute termination. In my opinion (which isn't worth much), that's just bull. I plan on contacting HR and asking them about this one piece of verbiage to clarify their intentions.

[RottenApple]

Also, I just looked at our administrative policies at work and found the "Weapons-free Workplace" policy.

.001 Introduction

[COMPANY] and its subsidiaries located in the U.S. and abroad (U.S. Firms) strictly prohibit weapons of any type, whether visible or concealed, at the workplace or at any U.S. Firms-sponsored event. Weapons include, but are not limited to: firearms, knives with blades more than three inches in length, any explosive materials, and any other dangerous or deadly substance or object that could be used to harass, intimidate, or injure another person.

As used in this policy the term "workplace" means all areas in which the U.S. Firms operate, including, without limitation, any U.S. Firms premises or worksite or client's place of business; U.S. Firms' or client vehicles, public or private means of transportation while engaged in firm business; U.S. Firms-owned or leased equipment, lockers, desks, workspace, and storage facilities.

This policy shall apply even if the owner has obtained the necessary licenses or the law permits.

.002 Violations and Reporting

If an individual observes or has knowledge of a violation of this policy, whether by personnel of the U.S. Firms or others, he or she has an obligation to promptly report such violation to the appropriate supervisor, the office managing partner or the office Human Resource director.

In any instance where an individual observes or has knowledge that an imminent threat to safety of persons or property exists because of an apparent violation of this policy, he or she should immediately contact building security or the police in the absence of security. Where criminal violations are involved or suspected, appropriate law enforcement agencies will be notified.

If a violation of this policy occurs, the U.S. Firms will take whatever action is appropriate under the circumstances, up to and including termination.

The bolded part is the section I have issue with. Fine, I understand I can lose my job if I carry into work, but I'm not ok with them telling me that leaving my EDC in the car in transport to the office or client would constitute termination. In my opinion (which isn't worth much), that's just bull. I plan on contacting HR and asking them about this one piece of verbiage to clarify their intentions.

First, don't ask, don't tell. If you ask, you are just setting yourself up for possible termination.

Second, read the parking lot bill. As long as your company doesn't meet one of the exceptions, they cannot legally prevent you from carrying to/from work and storing the firearm in your vehicle.

Remember, concealed means concealed.

[TLew]

First, don't ask, don't tell. If you ask, you are just setting yourself up for possible termination.

Second, read the parking lot bill. As long as your company doesn't meet one of the exceptions, they cannot legally prevent you from carrying to/from work and storing the firearm in your vehicle.

Remember, concealed means concealed.

Thanks for the reply Rotten. I would ask that you go back and re-read my comment. I was not worried about legality of carrying -- I can legally carry in my office place since they do not provide a 30.06 notice. What my comment was in reference to was the fact that they can terminate me based upon carrying in the car because they have it as part of the policy.

Regarding the "Don't ask, don't tell," I am not carrying currently, there is no possible downside to asking in this case, and they won't be searching my car anyway to look for it in the future. Any way you cut it, I'm fired if they find it as it stands right now. I might as well ask and see if their purview changes.

[RottenApple]

Thanks for the reply Rotten. I would ask that you go back and re-read my comment. I was not worried about legality of carrying -- I can legally carry in my office place since they do not provide a 30.06 notice. What my comment was in reference to was the fact that they can terminate me based upon carrying in the car because they have it as part of the policy.

Regarding the "Don't ask, don't tell," I am not carrying currently, there is no possible downside to asking in this case, and they won't be searching my car anyway to look for it in the future. Any way you cut it, I'm fired if they find it as it stands right now. I might as well ask and see if their purview changes.

I think you really need to read that bill. Unless your company meets the exceptions in it, they can't fire you for storing a firearm in your vehicle.

Sec. 52.061. RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.

And you may not carry now, but you will put a target on yourself if you ask.

[3dfxMM]

I don't see where that policy prevents you from having it in your car other than if you are on company business. Also, as several posts have noted, unless they are one of the exempted types of companies, the parking lot bill does cover you keeping it in your car. They can't legally have a policy against that.

[TLew]

I've read the bill/act and know it. It refers to the ability to leave a gun in the parking lot and not have action taken on you by your employer unless said employee is a school, oil/gas company, etc and given that the vehicle is owned by actor.

I'm on my iPad and unable to look up the policy definition of "company business" however it includes travel to the client. His would be considered under the previously posted policy and, if I'm not mistaken, would not be protected under the parking lot bill. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong -- I would love to be wrong!,,,

[RottenApple]

I've read the bill/act and know it. It refers to the ability to leave a gun in the parking lot and not have action taken on you by your employer unless said employee is a school, oil/gas company, etc and given that the vehicle is owned by actor.

I'm on my iPad and unable to look up the policy definition of "company business" however it includes travel to the client. His would be considered under the previously posted policy and, if I'm not mistaken, would not be protected under the parking lot bill. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong -- I would love to be wrong!,,,

Personally, I couldn't care less what a particular company's definition of "firm business" is. 1) It is 100% legal (provided the company/client doesn't meet any of the exceptions already). 2) The absolute most they could do is fire me, and my life is worth a whole heck of a lot more than my job. 3) Concealed means concealed. So unless I did something stupid or was very, very unlucky, they'd never know about it.

YMMV

[J_Davis84]

First, don't ask, don't tell. If you ask, you are just setting yourself up for possible termination.

Second, read the parking lot bill. As long as your company doesn't meet one of the exceptions, they cannot legally prevent you from carrying to/from work and storing the firearm in your vehicle.

Remember, concealed means concealed.

Thanks for the reply Rotten. I would ask that you go back and re-read my comment. I was not worried about legality of carrying -- I can legally carry in my office place since they do not provide a 30.06 notice. What my comment was in reference to was the fact that they can terminate me based upon carrying in the car because they have it as part of the policy.

Regarding the "Don't ask, don't tell," I am not carrying currently, there is no possible downside to asking in this case, and they won't be searching my car anyway to look for it in the future. Any way you cut it, I'm fired if they find it as it stands right now. I might as well ask and see if their purview changes.

I thought if your company has it in their policy and posted up that, they do not have to have the 30.06 sign for their employees to not carry into the business? As the 30.06 sign is for the non employees

Just want to get clarity on this

[RJGold]

The way I read it, you could be terminated for carrying at the place of business or in a vehicle (company or private) while on company business.

The "parking lot law" would protect you legally if you stored your weapon in your personal vehicle while at work.

The really sticky part would be the following Scenario. You commute to work while carrying (you're safe under law and policy), you arrive at work and store your weapon in your locked personal vehicle (assuming you don't work for a place where the parking lot law is not applicable, you're still safe under law and policy (although your employer may not believe this)), after a while you need to leave work and visit a client location...

Scenario 1 - if you must use your personal vehicle for the visit, you would be in violation of policy (traveling on company business) but still safe under the law. (i.e. you could be terminated but not arrested).

Scenario 2 - if you used a company vehicle or rental (pool) car for your client visit while your weapon remained locked in your vehicle, you would still be safe under the law and policy (again your employer may not believe this).

I and several of my co-workers have used scenario 2 before when visiting oil refineries and chemical plants during the course of our day. It aggravated some supervisors ("Why do you need a rental car? Just take your own car out to the plant.") but I just told them I didn't want my vehicle sitting out there in all that goo all day.

Just wanted to throw this out there.

[RottenApple]

First, don't ask, don't tell. If you ask, you are just setting yourself up for possible termination.

Second, read the parking lot bill. As long as your company doesn't meet one of the exceptions, they cannot legally prevent you from carrying to/from work and storing the firearm in your vehicle.

Remember, concealed means concealed.

Thanks for the reply Rotten. I would ask that you go back and re-read my comment. I was not worried about legality of carrying -- I can legally carry in my office place since they do not provide a 30.06 notice. What my comment was in reference to was the fact that they can terminate me based upon carrying in the car because they have it as part of the policy.

Regarding the "Don't ask, don't tell," I am not carrying currently, there is no possible downside to asking in this case, and they won't be searching my car anyway to look for it in the future. Any way you cut it, I'm fired if they find it as it stands right now. I might as well ask and see if their purview changes.

I thought if your company has it in their policy and posted up that, they do not have to have the 30.06 sign for their employees to not carry into the business? As the 30.06 sign is for the non employees

Just want to get clarity on this

Yes and no. If the policy doesn't have the 30.06 language, you may be terminated, but no crime was committed. The policy must have 30.06 language in order for you to be charged with criminal trespass by holder of CHL.

[riiano]

Got my plastic yesterday, so first time carrying. So looking [abbreviated profanity deleted] any
Signs. Went into resturant for lunch, did not see any
Signs. Got almost done eating and spotted a RED TSBC
Sign behind bar(bar in back of place). Went to leave and spotted
A BLUE TABC sign on inside of door. They had both TABC
Signs up. In the wrong placrs but up

[Dirthawking]

Got my plastic yesterday, so first time carrying. So looking [abbreviated profanity deleted] any
Signs. Went into resturant for lunch, did not see any
Signs. Got almost done eating and spotted a RED TSBC
Sign behind bar(bar in back of place). Went to leave and spotted
A BLUE TABC sign on inside of door. They had both TABC
Signs up. In the wrong placrs but up

You would have to check liq license. But it sounds like they had the wrong sign (51%) sign up.

[infidex]

So our local Carmike movie theather has put up a sign, getting lots of outrage by the locals on facebook due to the shooting in CO happening at a theater that did not allow concealed carry. Some folks taking business elsewhere to one of the other theaters in town, while others are going to just keep carrying since sign doesn't meet the requirements formally. There is also a sign saying that your subject to being searched as well in the theater, mostly due to recording devices, but that is what makes people a bit nervous about carrying.