+P ammo questions

[Millionhorns]

I'll prob just shoot off this box and then get some Hornady Critical Defense if the +P is too snappy for me (might just anyways)- they are advertised to be good for concealed carry weapons. : http://www.hornady.com/support/critical ... al-defense" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone shot these before/head about 'em?

[OldCannon]

I'll prob just shoot off this box and then get some Hornady Critical Defense if the +P is too snappy for me (might just anyways)- they are advertised to be good for concealed carry weapons. : http://www.hornady.com/support/critical ... al-defense" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone shot these before/head about 'em?

I use (and sell) Critical Duty ammo (the differences are slight, both are excellent - http://www.hornady.com/support/critical ... al-defense" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). I only use it for defensive carry ammo. Frankly, in my SIG P226, I don't notice a difference between it and non +P ammo, but I can pretty much shoot anything and don't think at all about the recoil (ok, 10 shots real fast, one handed, with a Scandium 642 revolver with 357 magnum ammo made me "think" about it ).

Train with regular ammo, carry +P. Just make sure your gun can handle it.

[TexasCajun]

Alright, So, newbie here. Just got my license and have some ammo questions.

Lord forbid that I ever have to open fire, but if I ever have to could the choice of ammunition be used against me, legally?

I haven't heard of the type of ammo being at issue in any shooting. Usually the main question is whether or not the shoot was justified under the deadly force penal codes. However, to put your mind at ease, find out what your local LEOs use if you can or go with manufactured/commercially available ammo labeled 'Self Defense' or 'Personal Defense'.

[FRITZ]

Okay, I understand the comments about +P ammo. My wife carries a Ruger LCR .357 mag. What about using the .38 +P hy-shocks in it? I think it is a polymer framed revolver.

[snatchel]

Okay, I understand the comments about +P ammo. My wife carries a Ruger LCR .357 mag. What about using the .38 +P hy-shocks in it? I think it is a polymer framed revolver.

I have the .38+p LCR. It says, ".38+P," on the barrel in big letters... so of course it's fine in that.

The wear and tear caused by a full house .357 load in your LCR is going to be far more than the wear a .38+P could ever do in it. Shoot away.

In short, don't worry about shooting +P .38 or any .357 in yours... it's built to tolerate it. You are good to go.

[FRITZ]

I figured that would be the case since her LCR is the .357. I have shot a Ruger stainless .357 and it had a kick. I thought a .38 load would be better for her but bought the .357 anyway (for both practice and carry). She has practiced with the .38 +Ps and she is actually a better shot than with the FMJs and lead .38s. Thanks for the info...

[rocketsteve]

This round is what I carry and I use in all my pistols for self-defense. Said round is widely used with LEO and PD officers all across the country. If the Police use it, why can't you? It is faster bullet to make sure the expansion of said bullet is consistent and over penetration does not happen.

This +1

[IChangIT]

I currently have 124gr Hydra Shok +P+ in my Glock 17 (there wasn't much else in stock on that day). They're rated for it and you can find the statement in their Armorer's Manual, not in the Owner's Manual. As for Sig, their website states occasional use for +P. Now my Springfield Micro Compact .45 w/3in barrel specifically says no +P in the Owner's Manual. Every manuf puts the statement in a different place...

One note about Critical Duty. It's not designed for short barrel concealed carry pistols. Check it out here with their comparison.
http://www.hornady.com/support/critical ... al-defense" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[2big2fail]

Alright, So, newbie here. Just got my license and have some ammo questions.

Lord forbid that I ever have to open fire, but if I ever have to could the choice of ammunition be used against me, legally? For instance, I just purchased some Gold Dot 124 +p 9mm, would I be better, Legally, by not having +P? If I were carrying 'normal' ammo, could my legal team make the argument that I was not trying to 'kill'? I feel that if I carry +p that the person I shots' legal team could say bad things about me carrying +P. Should this be a concern?

Also, What is the exact definition and purpose of a +P round? It's just more powerful, right?

Any help for this newbie would be greatly appreciated :)


Merry Christmas!

Hello all, just browsing the interwebs and stumbled across this thread. Thought I might drop off my .02 on the topic.
Sounds like the concern here is - what are the legalities of using +P and facing a DA hailstorm about intent to inflict "maximum damage" in a defensive use of a firearm.
Well, your weapon could be a .45! right? That hits with nearly 2X the energy of a 9mm. It seems that the universal language is - if you are to draw a weapon in self defense, it has already been established that you are facing a threat where you fear your life is in danger. At this point, to protect your life, one would be justified whatever they use (9mm with +P, .40, .45, 460S&W, 12 ga, bat, or even a samauri sword), right? The way I see it, if you use your weapon, the point is to eliminate the threat. Load your personal defensive weapon accordingly. If it wasn't life threatening, you wouldn't have to use it at all.

Good day, and God bless.

[bdickens]

Alright, So, newbie here. Just got my license and have some ammo questions.

Lord forbid that I ever have to open fire, but if I ever have to could the choice of ammunition be used against me, legally? For instance, I just purchased some Gold Dot 124 +p 9mm, would I be better, Legally, by not having +P? If I were carrying 'normal' ammo, could my legal team make the argument that I was not trying to 'kill'? I feel that if I carry +p that the person I shots' legal team could say bad things about me carrying +P. Should this be a concern?

Also, What is the exact definition and purpose of a +P round? It's just more powerful, right?

Any help for this newbie would be greatly appreciated :)


Merry Christmas!

If the shooting is justified, it shouldn't matter if you use a slingshot or a cruise missile.

[Dave2]

Alright, So, newbie here. Just got my license and have some ammo questions.

Lord forbid that I ever have to open fire, but if I ever have to could the choice of ammunition be used against me, legally? For instance, I just purchased some Gold Dot 124 +p 9mm, would I be better, Legally, by not having +P? If I were carrying 'normal' ammo, could my legal team make the argument that I was not trying to 'kill'? I feel that if I carry +p that the person I shots' legal team could say bad things about me carrying +P. Should this be a concern?

Also, What is the exact definition and purpose of a +P round? It's just more powerful, right?

Any help for this newbie would be greatly appreciated :)


Merry Christmas!

If the shooting is justified, it shouldn't matter if you use a slingshot or a cruise missile.

True, but you might want to double-check your backstop if you fire off a cruise missile at someone.

[EEllis]

Alright, So, newbie here. Just got my license and have some ammo questions.

Lord forbid that I ever have to open fire, but if I ever have to could the choice of ammunition be used against me, legally? For instance, I just purchased some Gold Dot 124 +p 9mm, would I be better, Legally, by not having +P? If I were carrying 'normal' ammo, could my legal team make the argument that I was not trying to 'kill'? I feel that if I carry +p that the person I shots' legal team could say bad things about me carrying +P. Should this be a concern?

Also, What is the exact definition and purpose of a +P round? It's just more powerful, right?

Any help for this newbie would be greatly appreciated :)


Merry Christmas!

Yes it can be used against you. DAs can and have argued in court that using hot rounds or ammo marketed as causing greater damage show something about the users intent. Now you can and, if you have a decent lawyer, should be successful in countering that argument but that argument has been used against defendants in criminal cases.

[Excaliber]

Alright, So, newbie here. Just got my license and have some ammo questions.

Lord forbid that I ever have to open fire, but if I ever have to could the choice of ammunition be used against me, legally? For instance, I just purchased some Gold Dot 124 +p 9mm, would I be better, Legally, by not having +P? If I were carrying 'normal' ammo, could my legal team make the argument that I was not trying to 'kill'? I feel that if I carry +p that the person I shots' legal team could say bad things about me carrying +P. Should this be a concern?

Also, What is the exact definition and purpose of a +P round? It's just more powerful, right?

Any help for this newbie would be greatly appreciated :)


Merry Christmas!

Yes it can be used against you. DAs can and have argued in court that using hot rounds or ammo marketed as causing greater damage show something about the users intent. Now you can and, if you have a decent lawyer, should be successful in countering that argument but that argument has been used against defendants in criminal cases.

With that being said, the reality is that any equipment you use and anything you do or don't do before, during, or after the incident can be spun against you by a prosecutor with the motive to do so.

On the other hand, any choices you make that are lawful, reasonable and not malicious (even if they turn out to be mistakes) can also be defended against by a competent attorney with good knowledge of firearms and the human performance elements involved in a life threatening encounter .

This is why post incident legal fees often run into the tens of thousands of dollars.

To return to the original question, I wouldn't worry about the legal spin aspect of using +P ammo. However, I rarely use it myself because IMHO the penalty in recoil and slower recovery for follow up shots exceeds the benefit of the slightly faster round.

Your mileage may vary.

[The Annoyed Man]

Alright, So, newbie here. Just got my license and have some ammo questions.

Lord forbid that I ever have to open fire, but if I ever have to could the choice of ammunition be used against me, legally? For instance, I just purchased some Gold Dot 124 +p 9mm, would I be better, Legally, by not having +P? If I were carrying 'normal' ammo, could my legal team make the argument that I was not trying to 'kill'? I feel that if I carry +p that the person I shots' legal team could say bad things about me carrying +P. Should this be a concern?

Also, What is the exact definition and purpose of a +P round? It's just more powerful, right?

Any help for this newbie would be greatly appreciated :)


Merry Christmas!

Hello all, just browsing the interwebs and stumbled across this thread. Thought I might drop off my .02 on the topic.
Sounds like the concern here is - what are the legalities of using +P and facing a DA hailstorm about intent to inflict "maximum damage" in a defensive use of a firearm.
Well, your weapon could be a .45! right? That hits with nearly 2X the energy of a 9mm. It seems that the universal language is - if you are to draw a weapon in self defense, it has already been established that you are facing a threat where you fear your life is in danger. At this point, to protect your life, one would be justified whatever they use (9mm with +P, .40, .45, 460S&W, 12 ga, bat, or even a samauri sword), right? The way I see it, if you use your weapon, the point is to eliminate the threat. Load your personal defensive weapon accordingly. If it wasn't life threatening, you wouldn't have to use it at all.

Good day, and God bless.

Actually, that part is not correct. .45 ACP, 9mm, and .40 S&W are so close together in terminal performance that it is possible to find a commercially available load in any one of them that will, on average, exceed the capabilities of the other two. The primary difference is the size of the hole, and even that turns out to be a difference of small fractions of an inch assuming the bullet expands reliably. I've helped to treat hundreds of gunshot patients over a 6 year period, and pretty much anything more powerful than a .380 makes about the same size hole going in. The difference is what happens inside, depth of penetration, what internal structures were hit, and the size of the exit hole.....if there is one. Most don't exit.

I went to http://www.federalpremium.com/ and compared the following three representative loads in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP for velocity, energy, and trajectory. They were, in order, the following loads:

1. 9mm 124 grain Hydra-Shok JHP
2. .40 S&W 155 grain Hydra-Shok JHP
3. .45 Auto 230 grain Hydra-Shock JHP

Here are screen shots from their website:

At no point does the .45 ACP hit twice as hard as a 9mm......if you compare apples to apples. Now, maybe a +P+ .45 fired out of a carbine length barrel might hit twice as hard 50 yards downrange as a standard pressure 9mm fired from a 4" handgun barrel, but that is not a valid comparison. But even if it were a valid comparison, hitting the thigh twice as hard as you hit the heart is meaningless. Shot placement is still king. I occasionally carry a 9mm, and sometimes a .357, but my regular daily carry guns are all .45s...........not because I think they hit harder, but because the fully opened diameter of an expanded .45 is marginally bigger than the fully opened diameter of an expanded 9mm, and I might still snag that vital structure with a passing .45 bullet that a 9mm might miss, and if the goal is to stop your attacker by disabling him, then hitting a vital structure is pretty much mandatory. But even while shot placement is king, I know me, and I know that shooting under pressure can vastly affect that—so anything I can do to up the odds in my favor is a plus. But I don't think of the "mighty .45" as King Kong to the 9mm's Tiny Tim. You're equally well armed with either one, or with the .40.........and I don't see anybody volunteering to step in front of either of the three calibers.

[C-dub]

Picked up some Winchester Ranger Talon 230gr. +P HP ammo today. Read some good things about and it was about time to rotate out my carry ammo. What says everyone? Anyone else use this stuff?