On being disarmed?

[ryouiki]

I've done a fair bit of research on general practices when encountering LEOs (what to say/what not to say/etc.), and I've done a number of searches on this topic, but most of the information I can find seems to be off/side-topic chit-chat in other threads:

If for some reason during a LEO encounter they request/demand to disarm you while carrying (understanding that they have this right), what if anything should you say to them? Do you provide any further information... i.e. "firearm is live" / "cocked/locked", "safety is off/no safety" etc.? Would politely requesting them to leave the firearm holstered (or asking them if you/they can remove the gun, holster and all) for safety purposes be considered out of line?

I ask this mainly because it seems like the worst possible thing to do for everyone involved (unless they somehow are in fear of you using it against them) would be to take a firearm from a safe/inert position (holstered/trigger guard covered), to a relatively unsafe position (trigger now exposed, possibly sweeping muzzle across body/body parts as they remove it). For certain carry styles (AIWB/Appendix Carry) the danger seems heightened even more since the muzzle is already pointed at fairly vital parts of your body from the get-go anyway. I also have to wonder, given all the various design differences in handguns, about having someone possibly unfamiliar with that particular model (or any custom work/trigger weight/etc.) trying to handle that weapon.

Is there any general consensus on how to handle this situation?

[Teamless]

what if anything should you say to them

Personally I would say "the gun is on my right hip"
I may say "it is loaded" but good gun etiquette says "the gun is always loaded" so it also should be assumed, especially by an experienced gun owner (officer)

Would politely requesting them to leave the firearm holstered (or asking them if you/they can remove the gun, holster and all) for safety purposes be considered out of line?

Once they want to disarm you, asking for them not to disarm you,in my mind, would not be a good idea, it my give them the impression you are hiding something, or being defensive and they could think something bad is going on.

If they want it removed from you, there is no way they are going to say "yes, go ahead and grab your loaded weapon for me". They want you unarmed, not sitting there with a gun in your hand, let alone on your hip.


Is there any general consensus on how to handle this situation?
Comply! You do not have a choice in the matter and anything else is going cause you issues.

[AEA]

I have never been disarmed. But I have thought about the process as well.

My thought is that if/when a LEO tells me he is going to disarm me, I will politely ask him if he is familiar with the operation/safety aspects of a 1911 and if not, I suggest he leave the gun in the holster and get on with his initial purpose for contacting me.

[knotquiteawake]

With my .32 seecamp, I am afraid that if an officer tried to "clear" the firearm he would break it. you CANNOT rack the slide with the mag released. It has a magazine disconnect and if you force it it will likely break the trigger spring to do this. You have to insert the magazine partially, then rack the slide to eject the chambered round, then you can remove the magazine completely. I hope I never have to be disarmed by an officer but if I am I would hope he would allow me an opportunity to explain how to safety remove the rounds from my firearm or just leave it in the holster.

[Abraham]

I would advise it's a Glock with a round in the chamber...if he/she looked puzzled with that bit of information, I'd provide more...

[longtooth]

In class I teach students that have been informed they will be disarmed for safety purposes, to simply say, Yes sir, officer, how do you want to proceed?

After being told by an officer he wants to disarm you I can see nothing but problems at best & trouble at worse telling or suggesting to an officer that he should leave it holstered.

My oppinion from my yrs of experience & YMMV.

[E.Marquez]

I really do think most LEO understand the "Safest" thing to do is leave that gun right where it is, and ask the CHL'er to keep hands away from it.
Only two contacts with LEO's while carrying over the last 22 years or so in 5 states.... and I've never been disarmed. So all I can add is what I will do, not what I've done.

Tell um where it is, what gun it is and that it is loaded and has a round chambered.. I will ask if I may take my belt loose while he removes the holstered gun? That is the only thing I will ask, and no matter the answer..yes or no.. it's his call and I get that.

And I do intend a follow up with his supervisor and a city or state attorney.. where they will be asked by my lawyer for the officers statement articulating the specifics for safety that led him to disarm me. It wont get me anywhere except to put the department and officer on notice,,, that some will question the choice to disarm, and question in an official and potentially litigiousness or punitive manner... All that assuming im not being contacted for a violation that if convicted WOULD be cause for the loss of my CHL. I would not question an officers decision to disarm if he was contacting a person suspected of a violent or other serious crime.

[TexasCajun]

With my .32 seecamp, I am afraid that if an officer tried to "clear" the firearm he would break it. you CANNOT rack the slide with the mag released. It has a magazine disconnect and if you force it it will likely break the trigger spring to do this. You have to insert the magazine partially, then rack the slide to eject the chambered round, then you can remove the magazine completely. I hope I never have to be disarmed by an officer but if I am I would hope he would allow me an opportunity to explain how to safety remove the rounds from my firearm or just leave it in the holster.

Is the gun actually designed to work that way?? Even having to partially insert a loaded magazine into the grip in order to eject the chambered round is completely counter-intuitive. If it is actually designed that way, I'd rethink carrying that one if not for the safety factor alone.

[TexasCajun]

And in terms of the original 'what if' - My pre-planned response is to let the officer know what kind of weapon, where it's located, that it's loaded AND that a round is chambered. And then ask how the officer would like to proceed. At that point, it's a real-life version of Simon-Says.

Any post-event follow-up would depend on the circumstances leading up to the request to disarm and what happens after I am disarmed.

[gigag04]

In class I teach students that have been informed they will be disarmed for safety purposes, to simply say, Yes sir, officer, how do you want to proceed?

After being told by an officer he wants to disarm you I can see nothing but problems at best & trouble at worse telling or suggesting to an officer that he should leave it holstered.

My oppinion from my yrs of experience & YMMV.

Winning answer right here

[Skiprr]

Is the gun actually designed to work that way?? Even having to partially insert a loaded magazine into the grip in order to eject the chambered round is completely counter-intuitive. If it is actually designed that way, I'd rethink carrying that one if not for the safety factor alone.

Yep; that's the way it's designed. And it's not really a problem because it uses a European-style latch-on-the-bottom magazine release. There's no questions about whether or not a magazine is fully inserted: the latch is either flipped closed over the base of the magazine, or it's not. To field strip the pistol for cleaning, you insert an empty mag....which is what I do 99% of the time I clear mine.

With a loaded mag in place, the slide can be moved about a half inch--enough to check for a loaded chamber, but nothing else. It would require some impressive finger strength to grip that tiny slide hard enough to force it to cycle with the magazine out, breaking one or more of the elements of the pistol, as knotquiteawake said. But it's more likely that a LEO unfamiliar with the Seecamp just wouldn't be able to clear it; if he can actually crack macadamia nuts between his thumb and forefinger, maybe he could tear the slide free...

I've never been disarmed by a LEO, but if I were I would work into my statement--probably when asked where the gun is located--the type of gun it is if a model for which a LEO is less likely to have manual-of-arms familiarity, like the Seecamp. Don't think I'd say more than that unless asked; then just ask him how he wants me to proceed once told I'm being disarmed.

Those of us who commonly carry BUGs, or carry in atypical positions, must be less than popular if a LEO decides we need to be disarmed. I know if I were conducting a traffic stop and decided disarming was necessary, I wouldn't be thrilled to learn the subject had one in a SmartCarry and another in an ankle holster...

[Abraham]

Is my response a poor one? If it is, I'll definitely keep quiet if ever disarmed by Law Enforcement, and hope for the best, however: Having read of more than one CHLer being disarmed by law enforcement only to the CHLer's pistol dropped onto the ground, or the LEO causing a negligent discharge and other horror stories, I'm a bit leery of anyone disarming me and me having to assume they know the particulars regarding Glocks...

[Teamless]

Is my response a poor one?

Your response of

I would advise it's a Glock with a round in the chamber...if he/she looked puzzled with that bit of information, I'd provide more

seems OK, very straight forward and does not sound like it is being defensive.

[ryouiki]

especially by an experienced gun owner (officer)

Well they are human like the rest of us, and as a friend in that field pointed out, not all LEO's are "gun guys/gals"... some of them turn white as a sheet as soon as qualification time comes around/have the same bullet chambered their entire career. The problem here I think (purely my take) is these are more likely to be the individuals that will want to disarm you.

In class I teach students that have been informed they will be disarmed for safety purposes, to simply say, Yes sir, officer, how do you want to proceed?

Complying is definitely the best course of action... so looking at the various responses, maybe I should modify the question:

Based on your carry style (hip/back/appendix/etc.) and your particular weapon, do you feel confident in your safety if a LEO was to disarm you? In the best case of a ND, I can see maybe ending up with some extra ventilation in your rear....in the worst case you are carrying appendix and either end up losing your "wedding tackle" or end up having a bullet in your femoral artery (and very likely bleed out).

[TexasCajun]

When an LEO decides that it's time to disarm, the procedure is completely up to them. My comfort will play a very small, if any, part in the matter I'm sure. I have a hard time envisioning any scenario with an LEO saying that they'd like me to disarm myself. If your carry method is such that there may be an increased risk to you due to their disarming, I guess the proper response would be to not do anything that makes the LEO even more jumpy than they already may be. It ain't right, and I probably won't like it. But the roadside isn't the time or the place.