Insurance, yes or no?

[kewlteacher]

when i took. my class, there was a representative that came and spoke to us about signing up for "shooters insurance" that offers legal help in the event that i ever have to actually use my CCW. I was leery of the pitch, seemed a little like shootin fish in a barrel (pardon the pun) for the company.
i came home and did some research on other companies, but still havent decided if i really need to get it.
Interested in hearing your views, comments and suggestions as to whether its necessary, and if so what company is the best.

[Keith B]

Hopefully that part of class was done at break and not counted as classroom time. DPS specifically states that is NOT part of the curriculum.

Now, to answer your question, there are tons of discussions on here about this. Here are a couple:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32248" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41065" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bottom line, if you decide to go with a pre-paid legal service, make sure you know what you are getting for the amount of money you are paying. Research it and the coverage well.

[ffemt300]

Got the same pitch in my class as well. Not to my surprise about half the class signed up on the spot. Pre-paid legal has always raised a red flag in my mind. Doesn't seem financially responsible IMHO. I'm willing to take the chance.

[74novaman]

Got the same pitch in my class as well. Not to my surprise about half the class signed up on the spot. Pre-paid legal has always raised a red flag in my mind. Doesn't seem financially responsible IMHO. I'm willing to take the chance.

I've carried for 3 years without any prepaid legal service. Its a bit of a gimmick I think. If it really was such a great service/idea, they wouldn't have to market it as hard as they do (kind of like buying gold).

Now, if it makes you feel safer to do so, by all means feel free, I'm not trying to knock anyones decision. Just didn't feel that it was for me.

[Valk]

The salesman/agent was very good at creating a need for his product. I do not believe for a second that he was just another CHL holder with a heart-breaking experience that “costs thousands of dollars” and required an attorney.

I always walk away from offers/discounts that are “only good today”. I needed a lot more information to even consider the offer.

About half of the class purchased the insurance.

[Jaguar]

I am on the fence about this. While I can see it being useful if the need arises, I would like some hard and fast examples of people they have helped in the past.

If [pre-paid legal] would provide the names of a few people they have helped, the situation (maybe a news articles), how far the justice system pushed the case, how they defended it, and if any went to civil court, I would be more inclined to sign up. I asked at my CHL class (done during a break and not counted towards the 10 hours) and all I got were "lots, but I don't have any examples."

Sorry, but without hard and fast examples of the service they are offering I cannot bring myself to pay up. I am sure there are attorney/client privileges that would require them not to talk about some cases, but as I see it, had they successfully defended me I would allow them to crow about it a little bit. I can find reviews on the internet for all kinds of items for sale, why not this?

[RPB]

CIVIL:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_proof" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Making Yourself Judgement Proof


This is not intended to be legal advice.
It's just ... Lawyers rarely accept a case if the likelihood of them not getting a dime for their work is probable. It's a business.

If you can't take their home and they live on Social Security .. or are smart enough to protect their assets ... it isn't worth suing and if not worth suing, who wants to accept the case and invest time on it.

CRIMINAL:
Might be worth a prepaid legal plan/insurance; we can't always pick our circumstances/witnesses etc.
If Trayvon's family were the only witnesses to him bashing a fellows head on concrete and Trayvon finding out scorpions can sting when stepped on, well ... the family "witnesses" might recall circumstances differently than reality has it

I don't carry insurance; I've considered it.

[Topbuilder]

The example (condensed) given the day of my course :
GG refueling generator in garage on day of mass power outage. 2 BG approach GG, inform him they were going to relieve him of his generator. GG opens coat, "brandishes CCW weapon. BGs decide that was not the generator they were looking for. They leave. They get home and call police... police arrest GG for brandishing. GG gets off after MUCH legal expense. Moral of the story: Too bad he did not have XX prepaid legal...

Now I'm thinking, wow, I might need this service, I might have done the same thing. But I never buy on "today only" presentations. Actually the hole story does not really pass the smell test... BG call police and says we were going to steal his generator...
Reminds me of the guy who took his cocaine to the local precinct to make sure his dealer was not cutting it. Wanted them to check it, make sure it was pure.

[Valk]

Story told about the generator was about the same as "Topbuilder's" except the BG went back and stole the generator.

[RPB]

The example (condensed) given the day of my course :
GG refueling generator in garage on day of mass power outage. 2 BG approach GG, inform him they were going to relieve him of his generator. GG opens coat, "brandishes CCW weapon. BGs decide that was not the generator they were looking for. They leave. They get home and call police... police arrest GG for brandishing. GG gets off after MUCH legal expense. Moral of the story: Too bad he did not have XX prepaid legal...

Now I'm thinking, wow, I might need this service, I might have done the same thing. But I never buy on "today only" presentations. Actually the hole story does not really pass the smell test... BG call police and says we were going to steal his generator...
Reminds me of the guy who took his cocaine to the local precinct to make sure his dealer was not cutting it. Wanted them to check it, make sure it was pure.

I "brandish" daily in my yard wearing no shirt, IWB gun holstered obvious I am wearing a gun, sometimes two; mowing, shoveling, raking, waving at people driving by, ... no law against it. Texas has no law on "brandishing" Perfectly legal to open carry on your own property, and inside your own garage ... I'd really hesitate to buy "insurance" or a "legal protection plan" from someone who does not know the law ... They need a better example than that if they want people who know better to buy their product.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control;

Though in the given situation, the homeowner who was legally open carrying on his own property should have already informed police about the criminals and their attempted theft.

[Valk]

I did also learn that it is always good to be the first one to call the police.

[MOA]

Is it insurance where I get to choose my own provider or more like a HMO?

[BritOnTour]

The example (condensed) given the day of my course :
GG refueling generator in garage on day of mass power outage. 2 BG approach GG, inform him they were going to relieve him of his generator. GG opens coat, "brandishes CCW weapon. BGs decide that was not the generator they were looking for. They leave. They get home and call police... police arrest GG for brandishing. GG gets off after MUCH legal expense. Moral of the story: Too bad he did not have XX prepaid legal...

Now I'm thinking, wow, I might need this service, I might have done the same thing. But I never buy on "today only" presentations. Actually the hole story does not really pass the smell test... BG call police and says we were going to steal his generator...
Reminds me of the guy who took his cocaine to the local precinct to make sure his dealer was not cutting it. Wanted them to check it, make sure it was pure.

I "brandish" daily in my yard wearing no shirt, IWB gun holstered obvious I am wearing a gun, sometimes two; mowing, shoveling, raking, waving at people driving by, ... no law against it. Texas has no law on "brandishing" Perfectly legal to open carry on your own property, and inside your own garage ... I'd really hesitate to buy "insurance" or a "legal protection plan" from someone who does not know the law ... They need a better example than that if they want people who know better to buy their product.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control;

Though in the given situation, the homeowner who was legally open carrying on his own property should have already informed police about the criminals and their attempted theft.

Does "own premises" include the yard? My CHL instructor clearly stated that the law considers your yard (especially your front yard) public space and showing your weapon in a place where passers by can clearly see you wearing it is considered unlawful carry (ie as stated above Sec 46.02). At the time i didnt agree with him, but he responded with "do you want to be a test case?"

So what is the correct interpretation?

[RPB]

Does "own premises" include the yard? My CHL instructor clearly stated that the law considers your yard (especially your front yard) public space and showing your weapon in a place where passers by can clearly see you wearing it is considered unlawful carry (ie as stated above Sec 46.02). At the time i didnt agree with him, but he responded with "do you want to be a test case?"

Inside your living room was held to be a "public place" when a person had their window shades up and front door open and was revealing too much information to the neighborhood.
"Public Place" has absolutly nothing to do with open carry on your "premises"

the law considers your yard

Which law?

the law considers your yard (especially your front yard) public space and showing your weapon in a place where passers by can clearly see you wearing it is considered unlawful carry (ie as stated above Sec 46.02)

Ummm no ...
Sec 46.02 mentions Premises, and not "public place" and it even defines premises

want to be a test case?"

Test cases are cases where there is no prior litigated case; there could be litigated cases, but I can't see anyone getting arrested when no crime is committed very often because the city has to pay too much to settle the wrongful arrest cases.

I don't understand how one could be a test case in already established law where cases on the issue are already decided. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_judicata" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As I said, I'd hesitate to buy a product concerning my legal rights, Insurance etc from one who ostensibly did not know the law pertaining to what he is selling

The issue is not whether it's a "public place" but whether it is on his Premises, and as defined, he is, so no crime was committed.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
-----

So what is the correct interpretation?

(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.

I agree that your front yard is a "public place" therefore I'd caution not to violate the disorderly conduct Statute by waving a gun around "in a manner calculated to alarm" or turning music up loud or streaking or using certain language while in the front yard ... however, it is not illegal to open carry on your premises because it's one of the "unless" parts. (if the person is not: ...)

Also, no CHL is even needed to open carry shirtless on your premises, but if a neighbor waves for you to cross the street ... don't do it while open carrying ; if you have a chl, put on a shirt, (or a washcloth to drape over your gun if you do have a chl; but no shirt)
if you don't have a chl , put the gun up secured on your premises before crossing the street. There are laws against firing/discharging firearms in the city (including your front yard) and justifications/defenses in Chapter 9 of the Penal code as "Necessity"
But there is nowhere, no law, that says you can't open carry on your property you own even without a CHL if it is done not in a manner calculated to alarm. That would be like a law that you can't open carry a machete on your own property if you use it to do yard work or a baseball bat or a butcher knife or fillet knife .. on your own property. The Lawn Darts game would be illegal ... https://www.google.com/search?q=law+dar ... 16&bih=621" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Weapons
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Disorderly Conduct (Public Place)
Do not pass gas in your front yard, nor light a cigarette or cigar which contains over 7,000 chemicals in your front yard, since it's a public place
See
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.42.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:
(3) creates, by chemical means, a noxious and unreasonable odor in a public place;
(5) makes unreasonable noise in a public place other than a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code, or in or near a private residence that he has no right to occupy;

[BritOnTour]

Thanks for clearing that issue up!!

As i said, I did not agree with my instructor, but he held a very firm stance on his opinions of the CHL laws and was not open to any other opinions. At the time I accepted what he said, but still didnt fully believe him. However, since I had no intention of open carrying in my yard, i didnt make it an issue that would have interrupted the class.