6 month after recieving my license ...

[The Annoyed Man]

Yes, I will renew when the time comes. Mrs. Oldgringo...probably not.

We will run parallel courses ...

You only get on chance at getting this right.

RJ

And probably once at getting it wrong, as well.

Until I read this, I was thinking, "to each, his own," and willing to stay out of the conversation. But that is the crux of the matter.

For reasons having to do with my religious faith, I am not afraid of death. But also for reasons of my religious faith, I want to live out as many days as are to be my portion—according to God's will, and not the will of some punk with a meth addiction. My prayer is that this includes getting to watch my grand kids grow up. In the meantime, I feel like I have a responsibility to my loved ones to come home alive every day. If carrying a gun ups those odds a bit, then I'm in favor of it. And like you, I tend to live a risk-averse life, so it's not that I am regularly exposed to an elevated threat level. But the truth is that, sometimes, we don't have to go looking for trouble. It will come seek us, uninvited.

Then there is the aspect of the political statement. I carry because I can, and the reason this fundamental human right is viewed as anachronistic by so many leftists is that they don't practice it themselves. The right not exercised falls by the wayside. Even though I have to jump through the statist hoops of the state to do so "legally" (CHL doesn't make carrying a gun legal, it gives you a defense to prosecution....an important distinction.....), I do that willingly if that is the reality of what it takes to exercise a right that should be free and unrestricted. I would like to see constitutional carry passed in Texas.

By not carrying all the time, you're actually in the majority of CHL holders. Most don't carry 24/7. I'm guessing that the active members of this board are more likely to do so than not, because we are by definition probably more interested in the subject than most other CHL holders. In that regard, we might actually represent a statistical anomaly, and thus you are probably more likely to get answers in this thread which disagree with your premise than you would get if you polled all CHL holders at large.

For my own part, I will not only definitely renew, but it is my plan (finances and time permitting) to obtain my instructor's license in 2012. My wife also carries daily by the way. Pretty much the only time she doesn't carry is in church.......not because of any particular philosophical or religious objection. She is part of the child-care ministry, and she is not comfortable having her gun on her or in her purse with a dozen 18 month to 24 month old crumb-grinders climbing all over her and everything else. So she leaves her gun in the car, and that means that she is unarmed during both the first service when she volunteers, and the second service when she worships..........but I am not unarmed. I carry on stage as part of the worship team. I used to be the only one who did in our worship band, but I know of at least 3 others who are in the process of getting their own CHLs. My wife's plan is to renew when it comes up. And by the way, one of the reasons she carries all the rest of the time is because her gun is the one thing that makes her the physical equal of any male assailant.

[speedsix]

Maybe I should go to Vegas.
Been an accurate guesser for over 50 years ...

It is that first time that you are not accurate that counts. As long as you are willing to take the responsibility that comes along with not carrying, I am willing to take the responsibility that comes along with carrying. You seem all ready to protect your car and home by stashing guns here and there...why would you think the rest of the world is any less worth being prepared for?

My honest to God prayer is that I will never, ever, ever, ever need to draw and use my weapon. I would love to go to my natural death never having had to take the life of another human being. I, absolutely, and without a doubt, pray that I do not have to go to my grave knowing that a loved one died because I figured the odds were against someone taking their life from them. It is not a case of, "Fool me once, shame on your. Fool me twice..." You only get on chance at getting this right.

RJ

...I've prayed often "Lord, help me not to need this today, but, if I need it, Lord, help me not to miss..." that's worked well so far...

[johnson0317]

You only get on chance at getting this right.

RJ

And probably once at getting it wrong, as well.

I believe that is precisely my point.

RJ

[mitchntx]

You only get on chance at getting this right.

RJ

And probably once at getting it wrong, as well.

I believe that is precisely my point.

RJ

And based upon your taking issue with my points of view and actions on other occasions on this forum, I think you completely missed my point of view once again.

Not "one chance to get it wrong" as in I'll be dead, rather "one chance to get it wrong" by making a bad decision.

I realize and my ego is not so fragile that I admit, I'm not trained well enough to be able to make a life or death decision in the heat of the battle.

I'm not talking about the obvious situations where someone is trying to smash in my door, running at me with a knife or threatening one of my family members with grabbed collar and closed fist. It's those not so clear situations that concern me most.

If I had easy access to LEO style training and maintained the same quality of requal training that LEOs have, then I would feel better about a daily carry.

But I don't.

So I chose a more conservative route and pray for devine intervention BEFORE an incident begins rather than praying for guidance in MIDST of an incident.

FWIW ... on my hip right now is a SA 1911A1 with 185 grain critical defense. I'm about to head out the door with my 7.62 AK to go feral hog hunting.

So I'm not anti-gun nor am I anti-carry. I am anti-paranoid, though ... simply because it can cloud sound judgement.

[mitchntx]

Yes, I will renew when the time comes. Mrs. Oldgringo...probably not.

We will run parallel courses ...

You only get on chance at getting this right.

RJ

And probably once at getting it wrong, as well.

Until I read this, I was thinking, "to each, his own," and willing to stay out of the conversation. But that is the crux of the matter.

For reasons having to do with my religious faith, I am not afraid of death. But also for reasons of my religious faith, I want to live out as many days as are to be my portion—according to God's will, and not the will of some punk with a meth addiction. My prayer is that this includes getting to watch my grand kids grow up. In the meantime, I feel like I have a responsibility to my loved ones to come home alive every day. If carrying a gun ups those odds a bit, then I'm in favor of it. And like you, I tend to live a risk-averse life, so it's not that I am regularly exposed to an elevated threat level. But the truth is that, sometimes, we don't have to go looking for trouble. It will come seek us, uninvited.

Then there is the aspect of the political statement. I carry because I can, and the reason this fundamental human right is viewed as anachronistic by so many leftists is that they don't practice it themselves. The right not exercised falls by the wayside. Even though I have to jump through the statist hoops of the state to do so "legally" (CHL doesn't make carrying a gun legal, it gives you a defense to prosecution....an important distinction.....), I do that willingly if that is the reality of what it takes to exercise a right that should be free and unrestricted. I would like to see constitutional carry passed in Texas.

By not carrying all the time, you're actually in the majority of CHL holders. Most don't carry 24/7. I'm guessing that the active members of this board are more likely to do so than not, because we are by definition probably more interested in the subject than most other CHL holders. In that regard, we might actually represent a statistical anomaly, and thus you are probably more likely to get answers in this thread which disagree with your premise than you would get if you polled all CHL holders at large.

For my own part, I will not only definitely renew, but it is my plan (finances and time permitting) to obtain my instructor's license in 2012. My wife also carries daily by the way. Pretty much the only time she doesn't carry is in church.......not because of any particular philosophical or religious objection. She is part of the child-care ministry, and she is not comfortable having her gun on her or in her purse with a dozen 18 month to 24 month old crumb-grinders climbing all over her and everything else. So she leaves her gun in the car, and that means that she is unarmed during both the first service when she volunteers, and the second service when she worships..........but I am not unarmed. I carry on stage as part of the worship team. I used to be the only one who did in our worship band, but I know of at least 3 others who are in the process of getting their own CHLs. My wife's plan is to renew when it comes up. And by the way, one of the reasons she carries all the rest of the time is because her gun is the one thing that makes her the physical equal of any male assailant.

I read and re-read your post Mr. Annoyed.

All I can say is Wow!

I am for the most part is agreement with your philosophical outlook.
Thanks for taking the time, to not only read, but to respond.

God Bless ...

[Zylo_X]

You only get on chance at getting this right.

RJ

And probably once at getting it wrong, as well.

I believe that is precisely my point.

RJ

And based upon your taking issue with my points of view and actions on other occasions on this forum, I think you completely missed my point of view once again.

Not "one chance to get it wrong" as in I'll be dead, rather "one chance to get it wrong" by making a bad decision.

I realize and my ego is not so fragile that I admit, I'm not trained well enough to be able to make a life or death decision in the heat of the battle.

I'm not talking about the obvious situations where someone is trying to smash in my door, running at me with a knife or threatening one of my family members with grabbed collar and closed fist. It's those not so clear situations that concern me most.

If I had easy access to LEO style training and maintained the same quality of requal training that LEOs have, then I would feel better about a daily carry.

But I don't.

So I chose a more conservative route and pray for devine intervention BEFORE an incident begins rather than praying for guidance in MIDST of an incident.

FWIW ... on my hip right now is a SA 1911A1 with 185 grain critical defense. I'm about to head out the door with my 7.62 AK to go feral hog hunting.

So I'm not anti-gun nor am I anti-carry. I am anti-paranoid, though ... simply because it can cloud sound judgement.

Saying it that way, Mitch, puts things in a different light than 'just nice to have', so please allow me to lend support this way...
Recognizing the need for more training, shows that you do have "sound judgement". You shouldn't feel pressured to carry, and if carrying, no pressure to use. Additionally, even trained military and LEOs would prefer to not use deadly force. We each take the course we're comfortable with, and pray for the best.
If this was your first time reading Mr. Annoyed, you see why we all appreciate his wise words. Thanks TAM

[Cobra Medic]

A lot of people figure they don't need to wear a seatbelt because they have never been in a car wreck.

[wharvey]

FWIW ... on my hip right now is a SA 1911A1 with 185 grain critical defense. I'm about to head out the door with my 7.62 AK to go feral hog hunting.

So I'm not anti-gun nor am I anti-carry. I am anti-paranoid, though ... simply because it can cloud sound judgement.

Everyone who carries 24/7 isn't paranoid. That IS a term often used by anti-gun folks with regard to those who carry a handgun for personal protection. As I said in an earlier post, to each his own. You asked if we agreed and it is obvious that most of us don't.

I do respect your decision based on your feelings with regard to your training, or lack there of. Nothing wrong with that. Years ago my father had to drive through some of the worse areas of Houston. I loaned him a pistol to keep in his glove box. This was long before carry was legal but still, few in their right mind would have gone in those places if they didn't need to. A few weeks later he gave it back saying he didn't trust his himself not to get mad and use it. Doubt he would have but he got no argument on from me.

I do have to ask, why on earth are you carrying a handgun when you are going hog hunting? The AK should handle anything much better than any handgun. If it is for back up to the rifle the caliber and ammo would be marginal at best, against hogs at any rate.

[sugar land dave]

If anyone remembers my admittedly short history on this forum, It took some while for me to progress from obtaining CHL, to pondering how best to conceal, to spending more time at the range, to occasionally carrying, and finally to having either my primary or secondary firearm present daily. I've already been happy that I carry, when a non-Caucasian person in a Walmart parking lot decided that I looked like a victim. Fortunately it was mid afternoon, and he was able to re-evaluate his position with me commanding him to stop his approach while clearing my secondary firearm from its pocket holster, but only showing him a partially exposed back of my hand, the remainder of my BUG still concealed by my pocket. When he took a step back and spun his back to me, the threat was ended. Amazingly, he managed to rob someone else in the 5 minutes that it took police to arrive.

As some on here have already said, it's nice to have a CHL since it gives you the opportunity to carry if you choose to. For some of us it proceeds from "nice" to "necessary" due to others actions. No one here can tell you that you will make the right decisions, but at some point you will hopefully trust your own self to do so. In the end that is what will make you an effective daily protector of your own self and perhaps those around you should the need arise. At least you will give yourself the option to choose rather than ceding the decision to the bad guys of the world.

Best of luck to you in your CHL journey!

[mitchntx]

Everyone who carries 24/7 isn't paranoid. That IS a term often used by anti-gun folks with regard to those who carry a handgun for personal protection. As I said in an earlier post, to each his own. You asked if we agreed and it is obvious that most of us who are posting don't.

I fixed your post citing TAM's excellent point. In the internet world of on-line forums, users typically post with counter points more often than those who agree.

Written word is powerful, eh? Especially when multiple interpretations of the same words occur. The media feeds on it ...

The whole sentence, not just the phrase you focused on, was about how I feel ... personally feel.
I choose not to feel paranoid and carrying a concealed weapon makes me feel as though the worst is about to happen. Not could happen, rather about to happen.

See the difference?

I do respect your decision based on your feelings with regard to your training, or lack there of. Nothing wrong with that. Years ago my father had to drive through some of the worse areas of Houston. I loaned him a pistol to keep in his glove box. This was long before carry was legal but still, few in their right mind would have gone in those places if they didn't need to. A few weeks later he gave it back saying he didn't trust his himself not to get mad and use it. Doubt he would have but he got no argument on from me.

Something my dad taught me to be honest with myself and recognize when ego clouds judgement. Your dad and mine would have been good friends.

I do have to ask, why on earth are you carrying a handgun when you are going hog hunting? The AK should handle anything much better than any handgun. If it is for back up to the rifle the caliber and ammo would be marginal at best, against hogs at any rate.

Well I'm certainly not going to use it as my primary weapon for hog hunting.

But this time of year, with cool nights and short days, cold blooded reptiles begin moving about more. and quite frankly, I don't own a holster for my 22/45.


SL Dave ... glad it works for you.

How did you assess what the perp's intentions were?

[sugar land dave]

I was glad too. Mainly that I had options which included projecting an unexpected response to the BG attempt to close distance. He started his approach at 15 feet, and I had him stopped and in doubt at 10 feet. Call it situational awareness, intuition, or a feeling, it is good to pay attention to the warnings. I was walking in from far out in the parking lot, but had noticed this individual early. He didn't have packages, yet was not approaching the store or searching for his car. He was looking around at people and appeared slightly nervous despite his being 6' 4" and leanly strong. Though others were closer, he observed my path and altered his when I adjusted mine away from him. Others were closer if he had a question to be answered, therefor there was no good reason to approach me. When he made a 90 degree cut towards me and called out to stop me, he was at 15 feet, inside of the 21 feet comfort zone, so I raised my left hand across my body with palm facing him. My right hand had already cleared my BUG from its pocket holster, and I felt I could fend him off with my left hand and clear my pocket with the BUG if necessary. Without breaking stride I said Stop, I have no time for you! He had a very confused look and then notice my right hand even though there was no indication of what was in my pocket. He had closed to 10 feet, but stepped straight back and whirled away without taking his eyes off of me. I put more distance between us until I was comfortably away. I notified customer service as I entered the store and they called police to check it out. He had robbed someone else and escaped within the 5 minutes it took local police to arrive.

This forum has helped me prepare.

[apostate]

In the internet world of on-line forums, users typically post with counter points more often than those who agree.

[johnson0317]

And based upon your taking issue with my points of view and actions on other occasions on this forum, I think you completely missed my point of view once again.

Mitch,

If I have disagreed with you in the past, it is not in my memory, so please understand that I am not choosing you to disagree with you on purpose. Also, I promise, I get your post. Your are worried about what the action of pulling the trigger could result in. It could be that there is a great outcome, and innocent lives are saved. Your nightmare is that you may have to pull the trigger, and innocent lives are lost because of it. I really, really understand that! It is a great fear of mine, also.

My point is exactly that, a counterpoint to yours. My biggest fear is that I will not be carrying when doing so may have saved innocent lives. We simply approach it with a different philosophy. Perhaps I have had more time to think about it. I do not intend to ever pull my weapon unless I know there is no innocents in the line of fire, unless I know that I have a very good chance at hitting the bad guy, and unless I know my family is in a safe position first. If the above variables can not be met, then I will only pull and fire if the death of a family member, or myself, is imminent. If a member of my family is killed while my gun is still in the holster, or in the car, I do not think I would ever sleep well again.

Anyway, you have offered a valid argument as to why you do not carry fulltime. What I bet you do not understand is that I am perfectly OK with that. If there is any CHL holder out there that has concerns like yours, I would just as soon they do not carry. I think no less of you, in fact, I think more. I would rather see someone leave it in the car than cowboy it when they might end up getting killed, or getting someone else get killed. You may, in time, change your mind, who knows.

RJ

[mitchntx]

Trust me, RJ ... I have taken nothing you've posted personally.
This is the internet ... not real life.

And I truly respect yours and everyone's right to carry and your reasoning behind it. I'm not trying to point out flaws in anyone's character or change minds.

I've owned, admined and moderated forums over the last decade where the passion of it's members are just as volatile as they are here. You know, the Ford vs Chevy folks? We don't know each other as friends or companions, so benefits of doubt are rarely given. quite the opposite.

If there is one thing I've learned in all those years, is that folks post when a nerve is struck. In this thread alone, "one chance to get it wrong" and "I'm anti-paranoid" struck those nerves.

Starting a "CHL: What's the point" thread was indeed going to strike nerves here ... this is a Texas CHL forum. What did I expect?

I wanted validation ... were my fears and anxieties valid? Was I over reacting? why did I have those fears? and is a CHL worth the effort and resources?

Many posted exactly what I expected. But then ...

Answers to my un-ending list of questions and concerns were coming into light until The Annoyed Man posted and turned on the sun. I could pan that single post a dozen more times and find more gold nuggets each time. Sir, you are some one I'd like to meet. It's like Jack Roush or Jon Moss wading into an on-line Chevy vs Ford debate and spreading words of wisdom. The internet needs more annoyed men ... wait, that didn't come out right ...

[Zylo_X]

Mitch,
Thanks for sparking some thoughtful discussion. Before I continue, can you please clarify a point? In your scenario of "one chance to get it wrong", are you applying that to "defense of others", outside of immediate family?? I would think that "defense of self or others", with "others" being immediate family would generally be a pretty clear cut scenario. Thanks, Z