New CHL and New Hand Guns User

[SpikeTX]

hmm.... Held a XD yesterday it felt better then a Glock....

I'm concerned with concealing a compact compared to a sub....

[Teamless]

I'm concerned with concealing a compact compared to a sub

The XD is a 4"
The sub is a 3"
Either is totally concealable.
just use the right holster, belt and clothing, and to be honest, it won't be much different concealing the XD (4) or the Sub (3)

[cougartex]

just use the right holster, belt and clothing...

[A-R]

just use the right holster, belt and clothing...

Exactly ... depending on clothing, I can conceal a full-size .45-cal Smith & Wesson M&P with a 4.5-inch barrel and a huge beaver tail built into the rear of the grip. A quality IWB holster (Crossbreed, Comp Tac etc) keeps even this large gun close to the body and concealed under a T-shirt. Of course, if you don't like IWB then you'll need to be a bit more flexible as far as clothing when carrying OWB.

Don't get me wrong, I still own and carry a number of smaller guns - but this is simply convenience for those times when concealing the larger gun isn't as easy (like when having to "dress nice").

My personal feeling is that every CHLee should have at least two guns - the "big gun" that you shoot really well and prefer to carry whenever possible, and the "small gun" that you can easily conceal, even slip into a pocket when you need it. Many even carry both guns at the same time - one as primary and one as BUG (back up gun).

[RPB]

The right belt, holster, clothes are correct.

A person can conceal almost anything probably.

I carry a Glock 26 right now, I will be carrying an XD45 soon, I can carry a Glock 19 or 17 concealed too

I prefer short slides, long grips, so my 26 has a Glock 17 mag with a +3 base plate for 21 rounds including the chambered one.

The short 26/27 subcompact slides work well with my lack of posterior padding on wooden church pews.. but the longer 19 slide works too, if I adjust the cant/angle.

[baldeagle]

hmm.... Held a XD yesterday it felt better then a Glock....

I'm concerned with concealing a compact compared to a sub....

Don't worry about concealment. Get a good gun belt and a good holster and you won't have any problems with concealment. Most of the major manufacturers make guns that are perfectly fine for concealed carry. I've shot Glocks but don't like the feel of them at all. And that's the point. Every person is different. Every hand is different. What feels good to you might feel bad to someone else. My EDC is a Sig P239 in .357 Sig (overall length is 6.6"). I've had people tell me that the recoil is harsh. I've had people say, "Boy that gun is loud!' Personally, I like shooting it, can hardly tell the difference between it and my P226 in 9mm as far as recoil goes and really like the way it feels in my hand. And I really don't think it's loud at all.

Forget about brands and calibers and find a gun that 1) fits well in your hand 2) that you really enjoy shooting 3) that is made by a reliable manufacturer. Then select the concealment components (belt, holster, clothing) that work with that gun. I have carried my P239 in shorts and t-shirt, and no one has ever reacted to me funny, asked me what that bulge was or said your 2nd amendment is showing. Concealing a handgun is easy if you just think through the elements carefully. If you wear a shirt that rides up above your belt when you bend over or reach for something, you're going to show your gun. If you wear a skin tight shirt, it's going to be obvious that there's something under it. Concealment depends entirely upon your body shape and type, your clothing choices, your carry choices (gun, belt, holster) and where you carry (position).

Finally, remember that most people are not observant at all. I'm not going to test this, but I'd bet you could walk around a big box store with a gun in an IWB holster with no cover over it at all and very few people would even notice anything, much less realize you had a gun. Even when they see it with their eyes, some of their brains will convince them otherwise. Others will just think you are LEO. You will be much more self-conscious about it than anyone around you.

[Jumping Frog]

The only issue I need to look up is how much of a hassle it would be to drive across Canada (Mi thru Ny to VT). I usually do that drive and I have read about NY. Although I could just fly but that ride is my me time...

You will be arrested if you show up at the Canadian border with a handgun - don't try it.

I'd rather go through NY than deal with Canada, which is a pretty compelling statement about Canada when you consider how much I hate NY.

Back when I was young & stupid & didn't realize it was illegal, I drove across NY to go to VT many times with a loaded handgun in my car (1970's). I was lucky.

[WildBill]

I'd rather go through NY than deal with Canada, which is a pretty compelling statement about Canada when you consider how much I hate NY.

When you cross into Canada and then back into the U.S.A. the customs officers don't need a search warrant.

[Asta85]

Hi Spike (and everyone else),

I too am a new CHL (passed the class on the 16th!) and hand gun user, and I figured I would put my two bits in. Spike, as stated earlier though it is belated, welcome to Texas, it is good to have good people flowing in! What I am about to say is simply the observations of a noob.

Right now you are looking for information comparing things, and looking for people to say why they bought this over that. You are looking for people to mention things that you might not have thought about. People will tell you that it doesn't matter what brands, what calibers, what sizes you look at because EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT... YA think?! I agree that at the moment brand doesn't matter, but one thing you need to decide now is caliber. Deciding caliber now helps you shop for the rest of it. You can decide from these three basic sizes: 9mm, .40, .45. The 9mm is not a bad round, but it has less stopping power, thus requiring either more prescision, or more hits. The .40 is known as the "compromise" round. Why? It has more stopping power than the 9mm, but just isn't quite the .45. The .45 is a big bad bullet, and it will stop. However, it holds less rounds and IS harder to conceal. Once you decide essentialy how much you want to shoot at a badguy, you are almost ready to go to the store.

Now that you have narrowed your options from three or four hundred down to forty or fifty, you need to imagine yourself and think "can I carry a service pistol (the size PD's use... we all know how large those are), or maybe a compact would be better." Once you figure that out, you will have narrowed your choices from forty or fifty, to eight or fifteen. Now you can go to the store. Once at the store you can tell the clerk you want to see all of his selection in whatever choice you made. If you find that a different size suits you better, whether larger or smaller, ask to see those instead.If you are looking for your EDC, immediatly disregard anything not a top brand since you will want something that is reliable. Your choices will have narrowed down to five or six, and the rest is how it fits in your hand, weight, and various bells and whistles.

I believe you stated that you have an injured wrist, but I wouldn't let that get in the way of your decision just yet. Why? If your wrist is going to recover, you should be readily able to handle any recoil given by the .40s&w. People will tell you all day long that the .40 has more recoil/kick/push than the 9mm... Ya think?! A few factors here, GENERALY (from my shopping experience) most of the brands put their .40's, and 9mm's on the same frame and such making it essentially the same pistol in dimensions and weight. Bigger bullet + More powder + Same size as a 9mm = tranfers more energy to you, aka kick. People will also say "the .40 has more kick than the .45!" Well, .45's are GENERALY on a larger frame, and have a greater weight. Energy to move the bullet, slide, and the weight of the pistol is eaten up before it gets to you resulting in a not as harsh kick. Also I noticed that recoil is effected by how steady a person is on their feet standing anyway. If you are easily knocked back, or have less muscule control the 9mm may be right for you. I shot about 20rds from a SIG 9mm last August on my honeymoon, and I no trouble controlling it at all.

The .40 is a great option (and I am not saying it is the only option) for several reasons: 1) It does have greater stopping power than a 9mm. My brother chose the 9mm saying "well if you put the bullet where it counts, size doesn't matter." Maybe so, but in the event that you need to use your weapon you will probably not have time to perfectly aim exactly "where it counts", and I would rather have a round that will provide more knock-back, and/or knock-down power. 2) It has grain options like any other size ammo! As noted in a previous post ammunition comes in 180gr. Well, for those of us who don't want as much kick, but still want more power than a 9mm, there is the 165gr which I find suits me well. 3) It does tend to have a frame about as small as a 9mm which is easier to conceal on a smaller person than a .45 would be.

I would continue to look at the XD as an option. I too thoroughly enjoyed the feel of it. I almost bought the S&W .40 subcompact, but I didn't like the safety where it was. I looked at the Glock because Glocks are like the AK of pistols... you can wash it with your clothes, then run over it with your car, then burry it for a week in mud, pull it out and fire it like nothing ever happend. However, the Glock .40 that was comparible to the XD40SC did not fit all of my fingers. The Glock was also very light, and I knew that would make recoil "snappy". I chose the XD40SC for the heavier frame/slide to reduce the recoil, but the drawback there is the weapon is HEAVIER Other than that it does fit on my person well.

I hope this helps some how!

[surprise_i'm_armed]

SpikeTX:

Welcome aboard sir. You have asked the kind of wide-ranging questions that
brings the dogs running to comment upon!

You mentioned in a reply above that your Texas home is in Richmond. If you go
to the UCP (User Control Panel) of this board, please plug that in to the "Location"
field, and that way your new hometown will appear on each of your posts. This helps
other nearby forum members recognize you as their neighbor.

The above comments have all been right on the money.
Let me say that the longer you carry any gun, the smaller it becomes. Trust me here.
The rest of the world is oblivious to your gun. They are in their own little world of problems
and don't realize that they are supposed to be finding your properly concealed shootin' iron.

Some people are drawn to smaller guns since they are more "concealable", but a larger gun
is more comfortable to shoot in any caliber than its smaller-framed siblings, and a larger gun
will have a higher round capacity.

9MM's may be the smallest of the "Big 3" self defense calibers (9MM, .40, .45) but you will
have more rounds than the same model in one of the other 2 calibers.

Regarding Glocks - they are tough, tough, tough, and reliable. But if you are looking for a
pleasing look to your piece, they may not fit the bill. They are bad in black. By the way, the
reason that most folks don't take a hankerin' to a Glock is that the grip angle is much more severe
than other guns.

When I have fired Glocks, I felt like I was shooting downhill, while holding a piece of scrap 2 x 4
from a construction site. That was my experience. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).

Try a Ruger LC9, SR9, or SR9C (Compact). They have glass-filled grips and point well.
Try Springfield Armory XD (Extreme Duty) or XDM's (the most recent XD variants). They feel good too.
Try Smith and Wesson M & P's (Military and Police). Don't buy a S & W Sigma (hard trigger).

When considering your carrying options, a longer barrelled gun may not represent as much of a problem
as the grip length of your gun. It's the grip/butt end of the gun which may tend to cause printing, not
the barrel end.

The answer to proper concealment: good holster, proper gun belt if you buy a heavy gun, and shirts with
long enough tails and some volume to them.

Finding one's gun/ammo is the easiest part of becoming a CHL. Finding the right carry method is where
the rubber meets the road.

Happy Trails.

SIA

[LikesShinyThings]

Welcome aboard, SpikeTX!

Well, you know opinions... everyone has one. So I'll share a couple of mine.

Glocks are considered fine firearms by many. I won't praise or condemn them. I will say I can't shoot them. If you don't have a rock solid grip on them, they WILL misfeed - my experience being FTE. I have had more stovepipes than I care to count.

I will also suggest do not discount too quickly the humble .380. It may not have umph of a .45, but it sure beats an empty hand. And sometimes, you just want small and sleek. I don't hesitate to carry a .380. If you get one with the right design (eg, Sig P238, Colt Mustang [I hear it's coming back in production]), the perceived recoil is quite light. This makes them good candidates for the recoil-sensitive. The available smaller size also makes them good for the small-handed.

Some more food for thought.

[DFWTT]

[snip] Glocks are considered fine firearms by many. I won't praise or condemn them. I will say I can't shoot them. If you don't have a rock solid grip on them, they WILL misfeed - my experience being FTE. I have had more stovepipes than I care to count.[/snip]

[texanron]

[snip] Glocks are considered fine firearms by many. I won't praise or condemn them. I will say I can't shoot them. If you don't have a rock solid grip on them, they WILL misfeed - my experience being FTE. I have had more stovepipes than I care to count.[/snip]

Probably due to using junk reloaded ammo. That would be my guess.

[LikesShinyThings]

[snip] Glocks are considered fine firearms by many. I won't praise or condemn them. I will say I can't shoot them. If you don't have a rock solid grip on them, they WILL misfeed - my experience being FTE. I have had more stovepipes than I care to count.[/snip]

Probably due to using junk reloaded ammo. That would be my guess.

No. Factory ammo, and not cheap garbage, either.

My experience, if you do not have a rock solid grip, the extraction will fail, and you will get stovepipes. Rather, let me change that - if *I* do not have a rock solid grip (apparently more rock solid than I am able to consistently produce), *I* will get failure to eject. I hand the same gun, with same ammo, to others, and they don't appear to have the same problem. Only thing I can figure is it is the way I handle the gun. I have accepted this, and Glock is just not going to be part of my collection. Doesn't mean I denigrate them, but I feel I have to put that issue out there so that others will be aware of it and not jump blind onto the Glock bandwagon.

[LikesShinyThings]

No. Factory ammo, and not cheap garbage, either.

My experience, if you do not have a rock solid grip, the extraction will fail, and you will get stovepipes. Rather, let me change that - if *I* do not have a rock solid grip (apparently more rock solid than I am able to consistently produce), *I* will get failure to eject. I hand the same gun, with same ammo, to others, and they don't appear to have the same problem. Only thing I can figure is it is the way I handle the gun. I have accepted this, and Glock is just not going to be part of my collection. Doesn't mean I denigrate them, but I feel I have to put that issue out there so that others will be aware of it and not jump blind onto the Glock bandwagon.

Let me add that I think the issue is related to the flexing of the gun during firing. Some folks have a firmer, steadier grip and I suspect provide the solid base that the gun needs such that the flex is not an issue. But if the grip is not firm/steady enough, between that and the frame flex (minor, maybe, but my belief just enough), the empty case stovepipes instead of fully clearing the gun during ejection.

Note: I ran into this failure enough times that I convinced myself Glocks and I should not partnered for a shot, so it has been some time since I've shot a Glock and experienced this. Which means I'm running on memory at this point.