1911 in 9mm for IDPA Help

[gwashorn]

I have been shooting more and more IDPA this year and really like it. I am looking to perhaps move up on what to use. Let me explain and give back ground. Right now I am using my normal EDC which is an XD9SC. Love it and works great. Yes, I know, it is a 3” barrel. But still IDPA gives me practice with what I carry. That has been my goal. I do fair. Nothing great, skill is the issue not the gun. I have an XD45c in 4” and it shoots good. I also have and recently have been shooting more, a Loaded Springfield LTWT. Shoots nice!!!! Changed out sites for my tired old eyes to Fiber Optic. Have them on my XDs. Just changed the grips to some VZ Grips Operator IIs. Added a S&A magwell and gunsmith reworked my trigger to the be what the factory was SUPPOSED to be, 5-6 lbs. Gotta say, it shoots good. I am more accurate with it than the XD9SC.

So, I was at the PSC-IDPA last week with the SO, Garry and talking to another member Brian. Good points and all on things. Very helpful. I noticed Brian using a 9mm 1911 Springfield. I suspect one, the weight of the 1911 certainly helps like it did on my 45acp and he liked it in the 9mm, shoots easy of course. Makes it an easy shooting gun. I can get 10rnd mags etc and shoot in the ESP class as my XDs. So after shooting my 1911 in 45acp and REALLY liking it, I started thinking…. Hhhmmmm, 1911 in 9mm seems like a nice piece of candy for the competition fun. Looking at the Springfield PX9130LP or PI9134LP. But would need at least the front site as a fiber optic. Not too bad of a price and then add the S&A magwell, grips like I have done my 45acp. Also looked at the STI in a couple of different variations, some (MOST) much more expensive but the Spartan maybe? Looking for recommendations and not going way expensive. My standard Loaded 45 shoots way better than I do, so this one should be the same, gun should match the average shooter (me) specification. Ideas? Thanks

Gary

[SlickTX]

I don't shoot IDPA, but I've recently been looking for the same set up, mainly because I traded my old 9mm (Springfield XD) and have lots of 9mm ammo around with nothing to shoot it from. I've been eyeing Kimber's models in 9mm and I think the Aegis platform may be my next acquisition.

[Strick]

Gary I enjoyed shooting with you at PSC, and yes my 1911 9mm is a fun gun to shoot.

The Springer has been really good and since I picked it up used i wasn't too bad on the wallet. I have been thinking about a second gun as a back up and have really looking at the Spartan. From what I have read and heard it runs really well and is an awesome gun for the price. About the only thing you are not getting is a ramped barrel, but as with most 1911's in any caliber the mags and rounds you use dictate a lot on how well it runs.


Brian

[gwashorn]

Brian,
Thanks and yes enjoyed the PSC-IDPA as well. You and Garry along with others have always been helpful and it is appreciated. I have a long way to go on IDPA competition but I like to compete. Like I said the XD9SC is my normal carry but after shooting my 1911 with the trigger and other work done on it, well it was sweet. Shot at the Arms Room last night and ended up in the heavy hitters group with Charles, Eric, Kevin, Marc, Brian and a few others. If I did not have to hit the target I could shoot that fast too! Of course I had trouble following the directions I guess on one. Laugh Eric, I know I messed up! But that is why you practice. I saw Charles had his 1911 in 9mm. Nice. I had sent an e-mail to Travis at the Arms Room to check into the Springer for me. Turns out he just got one in for himself last week, a PI9134LP, but apparently had some extractor issues and had to send it back. He said they were hard to find. I have seen one used that I maybe could get for under $750 and seems to be really lightly used and great shape. Not sure yet. Need to do some looking and pricing first and not get into a rush. Besides, I also need to do some good old fashion human practice on some basics. Learned a few more things last night so that was good.
I have a pic of my PX9104LP 1911 I have with added S&A magwell, VZ Grips Operator II in Black Desert Sand and Novak fiber optics. Arms Rooms got the trigger worked a little for me to 5 lbs. Thanks for the help and see you at the next match.

Gary

[kyreb]

In my opinion, the 9mm 1911 is just about perfect for this game.

I started down this path about two years ago. I had a "loaded" model on backorder with SA through a distributor for almost a year and a half. I finally gave up and cancelled it. Seems SA is really slow to see just how fast the 9MM 1911 craze is growing. Talking to the factory rep, they are/were putting just about all their production efforts into .45ACP 1911s.

I actually had a ground up Commander custom built in 9mm over this time frame. ( Ed Vandenberg built) That gun turned out really sweet. Too sweet actually....wife fell in love with it and it quickly became "her" 1911. ( Not bad thing, but I was back out in the cold on my 9mm.)

The next month, I went early to the big gun show at Reliant stadium. Lo and behold, I found a SA 9MM 1911 "loaded" on the second table I hit. I grabbed it and literally did not let go until he had the paperwork ready to sign.

I had my gunsmith (Ed V) replace the sights with a [abbreviated profanity deleted] Dawson front and a Bomar style rear. He did not want to checker the front strap as he felt the metal was a bit to thin to chance it. I slapped a piece of skateboard tape there and was GTO. I also added a Wilson plastic insert mag well from my parts box. ( I do not think they still offer these today.) I will probably get a SA magwell fitted sometime in the future.

Anyway, both guns are real shooters with almost no felt recoil. I would recommend getting quality mags though. I use Metalform and some Chip McCormick .38 Super mags I had lying around.

[gwashorn]

I do appreciate it. Looking at a used one I found that I may try to buy. I suspect it is about a 2001 model. will try to check the serial number to verify. I doubt they have changed that much since then and it is supposedly fired very little. Great condition from what I can tell. BTW, anyone have info on the weight of a Smith and Alexander magwell with a flat MSH in stainless. Curious if it was added, would it still meet the IDPA 43oz with a 10rnd mag. Sure getting the itch.

Gary

[gwashorn]

Well, I missed the one I saw on Gunbroker but hope Kevin got it. Still finding a few around and hope to snag one in a few weeks. Then go from there. Still need to know who is using these and have modified and still stay under the 43oz.

Gary

[ske1eter]

Dawson Precision has their Spartan 1911 in 9mm for sale for $629.

http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductD ... 1263828368" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dicion]

I would like to strongly recommend AGAINST any Para 9mm 1911's.

My experience with the Para LTC I purchased, and with their customer service has been ATROCIOUS

Short Story:
I purchased a brand new LTC at a gun show. Took it to the range that afternoon, and had over 10 FTE's in the first 50 rounds it ever shot (The majority never left the chamber... only about 2-3 stovepipes). The Extractor looked malformed, like it was not made correctly. The finish was also junk, and seemed to Flake off as I broke it down to find the problem/clean it/etc the exact same way I have done to my Colt, and my Kimber dozens of times. The Colt and Kimber show no appreciable wear. The Para looks like I dragged it through a gravel driveway around the Bushing, and on the rear of the extractor

I called Para about the problem, and at first they just gave me an address and a RMA number, and expected ME to pay for the shipping to them to fix the problem.
After 2 weeks going back and forth with them on it (It literally takes their Customer Service Department 3 to 5 DAYS to respond to an email, so this was really only 3 emails), they finally agreed to pay for shipping.

They received it August 16th. Last I heard from them (After emailing them and asking about it, and them answering my email 5 days later ) was September 18th I believe, when they told me it was still going to be 7 to 9 weeks more on the repair.

I will never buy another Para Again.
I will be more than happy to give my money to STI in the future.

For the Price I paid (It was pretty close to MSRP), it has definitely NOT been worth it!

[mgood]

I shoot USPSA (not all that well, but I go and shoot and have fun). My next pistol will probably be a 9mm Spartan.
Go to the forums at brianenos.com, which is THE forum for competitive practical pistol. Do a search for "Spartan." I got about 15 pages of thread listings. Search just the 1911-style Pistols forum there for the word "Spartan," and you can cut that down to about 5 pages of thread listings. Most who've tried 'em, love 'em.

EDIT: By the way, I'm a bit of a Kimber nut. I only have one Kimber, an Ultra CDP II, but I get every catalog, keep track of website changes, wear out the catalogs referencing back to them all the time, know the differences (not just looks) between one model and another. There are several more Kimber 1911s and at least a couple of their rifles up near the top of my wish list.
So to say my next pistol will be a 1911 that is not a Kimber, says a lot about the STI Spartan.

[gwashorn]

Yes, been looking at the Spartan as well and just figuring apples to apples on them with the Springer. Still wondering about weight issue for IDPA at 43oz if I add a magwell with an empty 10rnd mag like the CMC. I really like the S&A I put on the 1911 45acp I have. Been looking to move to 147gr for target as well instead of the 115s I have been using to soften the recoil in competition. My XD eats them all no matter what. I hear the 1911 9mm may be picky. How do they handle the 147 fmj flat nose like the Winchesters? I can get them for $240/1000. Thanks

Gary

[mgood]

USPSA has the same 43 ounce limit for Singlestack Division. I haven't heard anyone say theirs was too heavy, but I know some were worried about it. From what I'm hearing, it sounds like the Smith & Alexander magwell is actually a little heavier than some of the big, gaping magwells like the Dawson Ice, the SV, or the TechWell because the S&A is steel while these others are aluminum. (I don't know which of those are or are not legal in IDPA. I know they all fit in the box, but on some, you need extended base pads on the magazines to seat the mags quicly and securely. Some of the extended base pads have to be ground off just a touch in the front to fit in the box.)
The S&A seems to make weight in the .45. But I have a sneaking suspicion that the 9mm may weigh a hair more than the .45. Everything else being equal, the outside of the barrel is the same diameter, but the hole down the barrel is smaller, meaning the walls are thicker, meaning more metal, more weight. I have heard of people changing out parts to lighter weight components to make weight. But I have not heard anyone say "With this, that, and the other, it weighed this much. But when I swapped these out for aluminum/titanium/carbon fiber parts, it weighed this much."

[gwashorn]

Mgood, thanks and well put. I fully understand your thoughts on this and information. You hit the reason I ask, a 9mm 1911 is a bit heavier than a 45acp. Online, Springer shows the PI9134LP as 41oz. I have a S&A one piece magwell MSH in anodized aluminum to match my aluminum alloy frame 45. It was very light when I got it. PI9134LP is Stainless Steel and since I was going to use this for competition I was hoping to put in the stainless steel model to match the frame and for wear and tear, but it would weigh more than my aluminum one. So that is why I was asking. My bases on the 45acp all work fine with the S&A magwell. I suspect the 9mm version would work too but as you say, it may take some fine tuning. Like you said also, I have not seen anyone say I have done this and got this and finally made my weight by doing this. Guess that is the question right? I do appreciate the discussion and thanks. I will keep looking and any has ideas, I am listening. If I find out I will post back.

Gary

[gwashorn]

OK, I just spoke with S&A. Their Stainless Steel Flat unit is 2.9 oz. The Slim line is 2.7 oz and the aluminum is .9 oz. So if my PI9134LP weights 41oz like they say, then I will be out with the Stainless. S&A does not recommend the anodized aluminum version for competition as it is not as hard and will wear. Now, you can always change them out, but that does cost. How long will they last? I don't know but depending on how hard, how many times etc, it would depend on the person. So there is some of the information. At 43.9 oz, the question would be can I get .9 ounces or .7 with the slim line version. I don't know that answer but I will be checking.

Of course, go with the STI models which run in the 35 to 36 oz range and it is not a problem. Not sure the difference in say the STI versus a Loaded Springfield. I see the ramp is different, course, SS versus blued and sights. So still open for ideas. Thanks everyone.

Gary

[gwashorn]

Well, obviously I had an AGGIE moment when I did the weight comparison thing. I forgot the S&A magwell has a one piece MSH which of course the original of the gun will be removed when I put in the new one. So I don't add the 2.9 oz to the total weight, I have to only add the difference of the S&A magwell against the original MSH weight. So, that said I am guessing that the magwell it's self is only adding maybe 1.25 oz above the MSH weight. so maybe that Springer will be good to go after all.

Gary