Texas State IDPA match

[canvasbck]

I shot it. Shot well, but wished I had passed on this one. Cover calls were stupid tight. I wound up with 6PE's, exactly double the number of PE's I incurred during the last 7 sanctioned matches combined.

Well, you could think that - but as an SO on Stage 5, I can tell you we were calling cover properly and not too tight and not too loose. We awarded a lot of earned PEs on our stage.

I think the problem comes from local club matches not calling cover correctly and people come to large sanctioned matches and get called for cover. I'm not saying that was you - but that is the case a lot of times.

We still have people that come to sanctioned matches and complain they get an FTN on a swinger. "Because we never give FTNs on a swinger at our local matches"

Unfortunately, I dug myself a 20 second hole on THAT exact stage (which was MY Stage to SO which makes it more pathetic) because I ran by the target on the right and didn't engage it and then shot the no-shoot at the back.

But I still didn't end up last in my division (ESP/EX) - so some saving grace in that

James

You misunderstood my post. I have shot 7 previous SANCTIONED matches, I shot the Texas State match the last two years. Twice at Lone Star. Arkansas State championship last year. MVSA this year. Coastal bend year before last. I'm one of the primary SO's for our local club and I probably give out more cover PE's than the other SO's and ask other SO's to call me tight as well for the exact same reasons as you state. Im NOT a newbie. This match was rediculously tight. To the point that it sucked the fun out of what was otherwise a great match that was run exceptionally well. When an SO gives you a cover call and says "your foot was in cover but your hip came out" it's getting beyond silly.

This is not just sour grapes. I'm sharing what the VAST majority of shooters were expressing concerning this match.

Since I'm a certified SO, and as such a representative of the sport, I will withold my feelings over the new rules, suffice it to say that I prefered the ability to reload on the move.

Matches that are run this way are killing this sport. You and I both know that a lot of top shooters only shoot enough sanctioned matches to get their points for nationals and shoot USPSA the rest of the year because of both the new rules and the way that some SO's are calling matches. If people are getting 10 and 11 PE's on a 12 stage match, something is wrong. If experts and masters are getting 5 and 6 PE's on a 12 stage match, something is wrong.People are spending $1000 to shoot a match, including travel and lodging, ect. They shouldn't be leaving the match wondering if they should have spent all that money to feel like they were on an 8 hour traffic stop.

[MegaWatt]

First of all I agree, the rules are ahem, ridiculous in some respects. But, do the rules say "cover applies plus or minus 1 inch"? I also despise the "flinch" rule (which we called on our very own CSO/Club President on one of the stages) - 3 Sec PE. I also think the rule on not moving while reloading (you can only "pivot" a foot") is foolish, but if you move an inch, you are violating the rule and we awarded a couple of those to the earning parties.

So, do you give everyone 1 inch? How about 2 inches"? "Well you gave that guy 1 inch and you gave that guy 2 inches" will be the hue and cry. So you call them as you see them. Out is out.

Let IDPA HQ know that the cover rules were enforced too strictly at the Texas State IDPA match - I suspect the response will be "And?"

IDPA is a game of rules. It's not fair to the competitors to not enforce the rules - and enforce them fairly across the board - to Experts and to Marksman.

Regards,
James

James,
Let me say this, I'm an SO too and I know the hard work and commitment you and the others did for the match; and ya'll did a great job! Me personally, I didn't shoot bad and this is certainly not sour grapes. All I'm saying is yes there are rules and where do you draw the line? It's hard to do and also be fair and consistent which is what the IDPA SO training stresses. No different than a home plate umpire calling balls and strikes. It's a judgement call that's done in seconds and we all make mistakes. But an inch? You can gain or lose an inch depending on where the SO is standing. That's not an isolated case. Even most police will give a 5 MPH leeway. When I hear complaints from so many people saying the same thing, there's a problem.

[extremist]

Megawatt and Canvasbck, I do not disagree with you at all in your sentiments.

I'm not sure what the answer is.

James

[Cedar Park Dad]

Just some points if you will. Ok take this as a grain of salt as I have only been to one major (and am retyping as I lost the original post).

Good:
*SOs were excellent and friendly, even the ones who called me on cover. ;)
*SO’s were very professional. Several asked how I was, especially in the afternoon when I was very much not ok.
*Everything was organized extremely well.
*Courses were good. Some were a bit confusing for a relative newb like myself but I am sure the more experienced person had no problem.
*Location was excellent. I had to call the wife when I passed the herd of longhorns by the road with no fence between us. Reminds me of days of my youth.
*I’ll restate. I thought the location was excellent.
*Lunch was very good. I liked the “working lunch” as it kept us on track. The sandwiches were excellent. I’ve never had pulled pork before. Good job!
*Non SO organizers were excellent. One took the time to ride me out to the car to get extra ammo.
*Non SO’s who brought around water and mandated we get a drink were excellent. I was not doing well in the afternoon and that really helped.
*The Mississippi SO contingent was so excellent they make me want to travel there for one of their tournaments.
*Side note, the Best Western in Cresson was a major surprise. It was quite nice with quite a few contestants staying there.

Things I might suggest:
• Move any tents further back behind the green line. Several were at or in front of the green line, making shade difficult.
• Signs in to the actual range were good, but a few more might be appropriate, especially on the long stretches.
• Some of the SOs looked really hot towards the end. Is there a way to spell them-give them a break from the heat?
• If there is a working lunch again, it might be announced initially or in the packet so people know they will not be able to make a run to their vehicle midday. If that was done I apologize but didn’t see.
• Chrono. We were one of the first squads to go through that. I’d suggest have contestants do that beforehand OR have the SO for the stage before that peel people off after they shoot to go get chrono’d to speed the process. That may have been done later in the competition.
• Keep up the awesome pulled pork sandwiches!

[jimlongley]

A bunch of years ago I was taken to task as an SO for calling PEs on a stage where one of the BGs was right behind the barricade and people were not just putting their muzzles past the barricade, but a couple even extended their whole gun hand past it. I called a PE on several people and it turned into a fight. I had designed the stage so I was SO, and in the talk about what the stage consisted of, I stated that muzzle extending far enough beyond cover to allow a grab by the BG immediately against the back of the cover, would result in a PE, but several people said that I never said it and it wasn't fair, etc.

The stage was designed with three threat targets laid out as if you were entering your home carrying groceries. You were to spot the first threat at the other end of a hall and engage (after dropping the eggs, which made you really mad), then you were to partially retreat to a point where you could see though the window and see threat two, which was a reactive target triggering threat three behind the cover "wall" and it would swing into and out of view both through the window and into the doorway. The idea was that if your gun protruded too far while you were engaging threat one, threat three could potentially grab it.

That was one of the last matches I ever SOed, partly because of the acrimony, and partly because one of the shooters who complained PEed me on another stage, a couple of times, when he was SO. Undeserved at best, but when I pointed out to the MD that the PEs were merely revenge, he, who also had trouble not sticking his gun beyond cover, told me that it was what I should expect.

It was only a club match.

[thatguy]

The cover calls were over the top and saw some called even when the shooter was in cover...

I shoot with a number of seasoned shooters who are also SO's struggle with this match and as Canvasback pointed out these matches are expensive with travel, lodging not to mention preparation and practice.

Lastly, did it seem that a high percentage of trophy's and guns went to SO's or was that just my imagination?

[jmra]

I was considering becoming involved in IDPA but this thread has convinced me otherwise. It is ashame that egos and internal politics always seem to rule the day.

[Cedar Park Dad]

I was considering becoming involved in IDPA but this thread has convinced me otherwise. It is ashame that egos and internal politics always seem to rule the day.

Not seeing egos or internal politics beijng discussed beyond normal human nature. I'm seeing a discussion on a technical point.

I used to run competitions for historical miniature gaming. Now THAT involved personal egos, acrimony, and politics.

[jmra]

I was considering becoming involved in IDPA but this thread has convinced me otherwise. It is ashame that egos and internal politics always seem to rule the day.

Not seeing egos or internal politics beijng discussed beyond normal human nature. I'm seeing a discussion on a technical point.

I used to run competitions for historical miniature gaming. Now THAT involved personal egos, acrimony, and politics.

What exactly do you think was implied by this quote from Thatguy in the post before mine?
"Lastly, did it seem that a high percentage of trophy's and guns went to SO's or was that just my imagination?"

And what of JF's post detailing retaliation? I think we might not be reading the same thread.

[canvasbck]

I was considering becoming involved in IDPA but this thread has convinced me otherwise. It is ashame that egos and internal politics always seem to rule the day.

Please don't take my complaints about this match as an indictnment of IDPA. This is the only match that I have been to that was called this way. Most matches are called within reason and are tons of fun. As I said originally, I shot 7 previous sanctioned matches with a total of 3 cover calls prior to this one.

[jmra]

I was considering becoming involved in IDPA but this thread has convinced me otherwise. It is ashame that egos and internal politics always seem to rule the day.

Please don't take my complaints about this match as an indictnment of IDPA. This is the only match that I have been to that was called this way. Most matches are called within reason and are tons of fun. As I said originally, I shot 7 previous sanctioned matches with a total of 3 cover calls prior to this one.

I will hold judgement and continue to monitor discussions on the subject. Sounds like the local level events might be much better.

[Cedar Park Dad]

I was considering becoming involved in IDPA but this thread has convinced me otherwise. It is ashame that egos and internal politics always seem to rule the day.

Not seeing egos or internal politics beijng discussed beyond normal human nature. I'm seeing a discussion on a technical point.

I used to run competitions for historical miniature gaming. Now THAT involved personal egos, acrimony, and politics.

What exactly do you think was implied by this quote from Thatguy in the post before mine?
"Lastly, did it seem that a high percentage of trophy's and guns went to SO's or was that just my imagination?"

And what of JF's post detailing retaliation? I think we might not be reading the same thread.

About a 9 on the Tension Scale there Vern.

JF was denoting a different match. People are petty. Thats human nature anywhere.

[jmra]

I was considering becoming involved in IDPA but this thread has convinced me otherwise. It is ashame that egos and internal politics always seem to rule the day.

Not seeing egos or internal politics beijng discussed beyond normal human nature. I'm seeing a discussion on a technical point.

I used to run competitions for historical miniature gaming. Now THAT involved personal egos, acrimony, and politics.

What exactly do you think was implied by this quote from Thatguy in the post before mine?
"Lastly, did it seem that a high percentage of trophy's and guns went to SO's or was that just my imagination?"

And what of JF's post detailing retaliation? I think we might not be reading the same thread.

About a 9 on the Tension Scale there Vern.

JF was denoting a different match. People are petty. Thats human nature anywhere.

The fact that he was speaking about a different match denotes a widespread problem vs an isolated event.

[Cedar Park Dad]

I was considering becoming involved in IDPA but this thread has convinced me otherwise. It is ashame that egos and internal politics always seem to rule the day.

Please don't take my complaints about this match as an indictnment of IDPA. This is the only match that I have been to that was called this way. Most matches are called within reason and are tons of fun. As I said originally, I shot 7 previous sanctioned matches with a total of 3 cover calls prior to this one.

I will hold judgement and continue to monitor discussions on the subject. Sounds like the local level events might be much better.

Again, this was a "major." It was full of serious competitors (or TFG as we used to call them in a non gun hobby I used to frequent). Local matches are (typically) much more laid back. I would definitely check them out.

[TxD]

When the MD is walking around "cocked and locked" on a cold range and some "SO's" are wearing their Police badges, you know you have walked
off the deep end.