TexasCHLforum.com

Okay folks, so here is the deal:

My CHL application (submitted in February) is in limbo. For the time being, the story is that they are neither going to accept or deny my license. They (Texas Department of Public Safety) have referred my case to the Medical Advisory Board, which has required that I get a "sound judgment evaluation" before my license can go through. I have to find a psychiatrist willing to do such an assessment, become a patient, get the evaluation done, have the psychiatrist fill out the forms (provided for me by the Board), and submit the forms all within the next 30 days or the Medical Advisory Board says they'll have to "return the file back to DPS", where I guess it will continue to sit.

In case you're wondering, I had *one* incident about 13 to 14 years ago which I self-reported on the CHL application. Basically, I had a girlfriend at the time who broke my heart, and I didn't know how to deal with it, so I became really depressed, then angry. Pretty stupidly, I started lashing out at her and her friends, and at one point I said I would kill all of them. Well, bad move, because they thought I was serious enough to have the police search my apartment, and they found my home defense pistol. No arrest, no charges or anything, but they strongly suggested that I seek counseling and psychiatric treatment. Well, I agreed with them, and so I spent about 2 weeks in a hospital, following up with another couple of months of therapy and outpatient visits, etc. After that, my treatment ended, and my doctors and I agreed I was completely over my depression. That was 13 years ago, and I hardly remember most of the details now. I self-reported it because the application asks for any and all hospital stays, even voluntary ones.

So even though I haven't had or needed any kind of evaluation or treatment in the past 13 years, I now find it imminent that I locate a psychiatrist who is willing to "vouch" for me, and do so fast to meet the deadline. It feels like a pretty odd scenario. I spent a large part of Tuesday calling around Dallas trying to find a psychiatrist who is able and willing to do such a test and fill out the paperwork, but so far I have been unsuccessful. Many of the receptionists that I talk to don't really understand what I'm asking for. Several have asked me to sign up as a patient before they can answer the question (really)?

Do any of you know any doctors specializing in psychiatry (preferably near the Dallas area -- but I may get desperate) who are willing and able to do a "sound judgment evaluation" and fill out the Medical Advisory Board forms? ANY recommendations would be helpful. Anyone know any "gun-knowledgeable" or "gun-friendly" psychiatrists?

Thanks in advance for any help you guys could suggest!!

Let me know also if you think there is a better category to post this topic in.

Welcome, to the board, if you can write so eloquently with fluid and grace, and after 13 yrs you sound sane and normal person to me.

Find a doc and get him to do eval and fill up the paper.
Good luck.

After that, my treatment ended, and my doctors and I agreed I was completely over my depression. That was 13 years ago, and I hardly remember most of the details now. I self-reported it because the application asks for any and all hospital stays, even voluntary ones.

Is there any reason you can't go back to the treating physician that cared for you 13 years ago? They will have your records stored and would be the best person to fill out the form. That's probably the least expensive route and least intrusive. A new physician would likely be afraid to just "sign off" on anything and would require lenghty sessions to be sure you are not still carrying murderous wishes.

Just my 2c.

jayinsat wrote:

After that, my treatment ended, and my doctors and I agreed I was completely over my depression. That was 13 years ago, and I hardly remember most of the details now. I self-reported it because the application asks for any and all hospital stays, even voluntary ones.

Is there any reason you can't go back to the treating physician that cared for you 13 years ago? They will have your records stored and would be the best person to fill out the form. That's probably the least expensive route and least intrusive. A new physician would likely be afraid to just "sign off" on anything and would require lenghty sessions to be sure you are not still carrying murderous wishes.

Just my 2c.

I agree. A new doctor will want several "sessions" just to be able to say you are okay. Why not go back to the original doctor or clinic and have then sign off on it.

Thanks for the replies. I've already tried the avenues that you suggest. Neither my original doctor (the one which I did outpatient with) or the therapist are practicing any longer. I have asked the clinic to see if they can locate my records, but so far they haven't been able to find anything.

This all seems pretty surreal to me.

My suggestion is to put on a coat of patience and understand you are probably facing a long delay and big expense (depending on your health insurance coverage). The last thing you want to do in appear impatient about getting your chl. That would throw up all kinds of red flags. Submit kindly to whatever hoops they want you to jump through and do it with a smile. If a new Doc wants to see you over 6 months, agree to it and be open and honest. Don't get down in the dumps. It will all be worth it in the end.

I am truly sorry you are facing this. You are strong enough to overcome it though.

jayinsat wrote:My suggestion is to put on a coat of patience and understand you are probably facing a long delay and big expense (depending on your health insurance coverage). The last thing you want to do in appear impatient about getting your chl. That would throw up all kinds of red flags. Submit kindly to whatever hoops they want you to jump through and do it with a smile. If a new Doc wants to see you over 6 months, agree to it and be open and honest. Don't get down in the dumps. It will all be worth it in the end.

That's what I'm doing basically. I just wish they would have notified me in advance that I would have to do all of this. Something like, "Don't submit your application until you have current records to explain all past hospital stays." would have been a very useful statement for them to make. As everyone here can relate to I'm sure, I'd hate for all of the months of waiting, class, expenses, and paperwork to all go to waste if I have to start all over again. Plus, as you mention, who knows how long or how much a new doctor would want to see me, or if they would even do the paperwork afterward. The paperwork expires after 30 days, so the timing on it doesn't really make sense at least for my situation.

I've called the Medical Advisory Board several times and they seem to indicate that there are psychiatrists able to do these sound judgment evaluations if I just call or ask around enough. Of course they're not giving me any recommendations, either, so hence why I'm asking on this forum.

Yet another reason I am firmly against any and all "psychiatric evaluations" in order to exercise our Constitutional rights.

PwnRanger is in exactly the sort of situation that Those Who Know Better want for all of us, that of asking Permission from a NON-impartial, BIASED "third party." Any psychiatrist worth his malpractice insurance payment would refuse to sign off. Why? Because, as their lawyers and insurance reps will assure them, if PwnRanger "snaps" and "goes on a rampage," the microscope will then be applied to the psychiatrist who cleared him, who may then himself be held liable in civil and/or criminal court (counting federal as well as state), plus whatever harassments the various .gov levels bring against him (audits, etc.). Most psychiatrists will be scared off by this, or at least take it into serious consideration. PwnRanger may well find someone willing to clear him; I hope and pray he does. However, the cynical side of me considers this unlikely.

There is NO impartial third party when it comes to "clearing" someone in a situation like this. EVERYONE has "skin in the game," and will be inclined to consider their own self-interest.

Call me radical. Call me right wing. That's all fine, and may even be true. But I am sick and tired of ANY level of government requiring any test, license, permission, or fee, in order to exercise Constitutionally-protected rights. I love Texas, and I understand why the CHL was brought into existence, but I hate its current perceived necessity. Prior to moving to New Mexico, I had a TX CHL, and carried every day. And I chafed then, and do now, that I had to ask permission.

PwnRanger, my apologies for hijacking your thread to rant, but your situation just pushed a hot-button topic for me. I wish I had some sort of advice for you, but short of replacing representatives and altering the CHL law, I really have none.

JSThane wrote:Yet another reason I am firmly against any and all "psychiatric evaluations" in order to exercise our Constitutional rights.

PwnRanger is in exactly the sort of situation that Those Who Know Better want for all of us, that of asking Permission from a NON-impartial, BIASED "third party." Any psychiatrist worth his malpractice insurance payment would refuse to sign off. Why? Because, as their lawyers and insurance reps will assure them, if PwnRanger "snaps" and "goes on a rampage," the microscope will then be applied to the psychiatrist who cleared him, who may then himself be held liable in civil and/or criminal court (counting federal as well as state), plus whatever harassments the various .gov levels bring against him (audits, etc.). Most psychiatrists will be scared off by this, or at least take it into serious consideration. PwnRanger may well find someone willing to clear him; I hope and pray he does. However, the cynical side of me considers this unlikely.

There is NO impartial third party when it comes to "clearing" someone in a situation like this. EVERYONE has "skin in the game," and will be inclined to consider their own self-interest.

Call me radical. Call me right wing. That's all fine, and may even be true. But I am sick and tired of ANY level of government requiring any test, license, permission, or fee, in order to exercise Constitutionally-protected rights. I love Texas, and I understand why the CHL was brought into existence, but I hate its current perceived necessity. Prior to moving to New Mexico, I had a TX CHL, and carried every day. And I chafed then, and do now, that I had to ask permission.

PwnRanger, my apologies for hijacking your thread to rant, but your situation just pushed a hot-button topic for me. I wish I had some sort of advice for you, but short of replacing representatives and altering the CHL law, I really have none.

No worries, thanks for your comments. In principle, I agree with you fully. I'm just trying to take the high road here and give the process the benefit of a doubt. I'm not really in any kind of position to make any such arguments like yours above, other than just possibly tell others about my experiences.

Believe me, I'm as pro-gun as they come -- I've been shooting rifles and handguns since I was 14. That's another reason why this pains me -- my feeling is that it places me in the same category as any mentally depraved individual. Whereas I understand now that depression can escalate into something much worse, I haven't had depressed or aggressive feelings like that in 13 years. I have absolutely no ability to "go on a rampage".

On the federal level, this is another reason why I feel the Gun Control Act of 1968 discriminates against certain groups of people. At the very least, that law leaves no room for repentance, forgiveness, or rehabilitation. At least from my own point of view, that is unrealistic.

Anyway, thanks for the political diversion! Keep fighting the good fight and letting your legislators know how you feel.

I'm still hoping to hear from anyone who might know of a "gun-knowledgeable" psychiatrist. Surely somebody else out there has been in a similar situation as me? The Advisory Board told me that many others have had my same problem. (So why don't they just extend the deadline then?)

Cheers everyone.

Now I am about to throw a big wrench into this.

If he goes to a new doctor, and this doctor requires him to return for a few sessions, again he is under a doctors care for mental health. Will he be disqualified for this now?

RPBrown wrote:Now I am about to throw a big wrench into this.

If he goes to a new doctor, and this doctor requires him to return for a few sessions, again he is under a doctors care for mental health. Will he be disqualified for this now?

Not if the Doctor signs a statement releasing him saying he has no issues that would prevent him from obtaining a CHL.

In case anyone is interested, here are the forms that a doctor has to fill out on my behalf, attached. There is also an instructional letter and a form for authorization to release records. (Recall when reading these that I haven't had any history of issues in the past 13 years, and that I also self-reported... )

It doesn't look like it should be impossible to do. It's just a matter of convincing the physician to do an evaluation under these circumstances. Easier said than done, of course. But the letter even references the waiving of liability for the doctor's recommendation.

Still a big task ahead, but I'm staying optimistic and hopeful.

Physician recommendations still very much welcome!

Well that is a good start IMO. At least you have an idea of specifically what the DPS needs from a doctor. I think that will make getting one to jump on board with this easier. They can look over the forms and make a determination if that's something they want to get involved with or not. Best of luck to ya

PwnRanger wrote:Thanks for the replies. I've already tried the avenues that you suggest. Neither my original doctor (the one which I did outpatient with) or the therapist are practicing any longer. I have asked the clinic to see if they can locate my records, but so far they haven't been able to find anything.

This all seems pretty surreal to me.

You said that neither the original doctor nor the therapist are practicing any longer. Did you tried to contact them or were you told they no longer practiced? If you just were told, you might try to contact them anyhow. They might have the records of your treatment or should know who has them.

Just brainstorming ... seems the same type of psychiatrist who would sign off on a peace officer being "fit for duty" could/would sign off on your situation, or at least point you toward a colleague who could.

I doubt any law enforcement agency will make an official recommendation, but if you know any LEOs in your area and could have a personal conversation .. also check with local police academies and/or criminology programs, perhaps even defense attorneys?

Just thinking ways for you to get some names to check.

In what part of Texas do you live (skimmed the posts, so may have missed this).