Moderator: carlson1
It's amazing how many competent, responsible gun owners can't seem to hold on to their firearms aboard their boat.Jusme wrote:TxLobo wrote:Reckon I'm a moron..TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:You're right. You don't need a receipt. But if you transfer a firearm anywhere on Planet Earth and you don't get a receipt you're a moron.
Or careless,because mine would have been lost in a boating mishap.
Oh I believe you, I wasn't doubting. I got out before Clinton the First came into power! I don't think I could have called him "Commander in Chief" with a straight face. God help the military if Clinton the Second gets in there.TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:TXGlock, Bill Clinton changed all that in 1996 when he issued Exective Order banning all unregistered weapons on military base. Look it up. Sad but true.
Me three... I see no reason to do any more or less than exactly what the law requires.TXBO wrote:Yep. Me too. I have no record of any purchases or sales.TxLobo wrote:Reckon I'm a moron..TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:You're right. You don't need a receipt. But if you transfer a firearm anywhere on Planet Earth and you don't get a receipt you're a moron.
Count me in the moron group too. I even bought a pistol from a forum member and we never exchanged anything more permanent than a handshake.cyphertext wrote:Me three... I see no reason to do any more or less than exactly what the law requires.TXBO wrote:Yep. Me too. I have no record of any purchases or sales.TxLobo wrote:Reckon I'm a moron..TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:You're right. You don't need a receipt. But if you transfer a firearm anywhere on Planet Earth and you don't get a receipt you're a moron.
Way back in the mid-80's I bought my first semi-auto pistol - when I was filling out the ATF 4473 form the owner of the shop told me not to worry cause he kept all the 4473's safe in a wood shed behind the store alongside several gallons of gasoline. He said the shed would burn before he turned any records over to the ATF.Pawpaw wrote:Count me in the moron group too. I even bought a pistol from a forum member and we never exchanged anything more permanent than a handshake.cyphertext wrote:Me three... I see no reason to do any more or less than exactly what the law requires.TXBO wrote:Yep. Me too. I have no record of any purchases or sales.TxLobo wrote:Reckon I'm a moron..TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:You're right. You don't need a receipt. But if you transfer a firearm anywhere on Planet Earth and you don't get a receipt you're a moron.
Thank goodness all us morons have super-intelligent people like TXPeaceOfficerDave to keep us out of trouble.
There are 2 distinct sets of people on this forum. Those that think every gun sale needs a bill of sale ( of which I am in that group ) and those that are against exchanging such info which would contain personal info. Calling them morons probably at least hit a tender nerve.TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:Good lord, a whole motmot y'all own boats!!! Hahaha
Okay. Let's be serious for a second and let's compare your firearms transfer to what happens when you transfer a boat.
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TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:Good lord, a whole motmot y'all own boats!!! Hahaha
Okay. Let's be serious for a second and let's compare your firearms transfer to what happens when you transfer a boat.
In the great State of Tejas (I live just outside San Antonio, so believe me, it's TEJAS) when you sell a car or a boat there is a little form you need to fill out that absolves you if any liability should said car or boat be used in some criminal or malicious act. It also helps you on toll road bills!!!! Anyways...this pertains to firearms directly in that when do a "handshake deal" with someone you don't know they can really screw you. Let me tell you how. In many states it is the law that any weapon sold must have had an "example casing" pulled before sale. Connecticut and others do this. Glock does this voluntarily and many others do as well.
So you sell your handshake gun to Joe Smoe and he immediately goes and robs a bank (federal and state offense). He then shoots the teller and drops the gun on the floor and walks out.
Without the documentation of your sake you are going to get jacked up by the Feds until you show you are not the robber. In the mean time the actually criminal is farther from justice and you are at the federal building explaining to the boys in suits your alibi and if you're lucky your bank deposit showing where you deposited the funds that same day. There is a 0% chance you'll be charged or convicted of the capital offense that was committed but there is a 100% chance you'll be answering a WHOLE LOT of questions and your attorney is not go to come down there to the federal building for free. Not will likely cost your about $600 PER HOUR! for your attorney showing up helping you explain. You aren't in "custody" but you'll darn sure be questioned a bunch.
I have investigated dozens and dozens of robberies. And can tell
You first hand a firearms trace is one of the first items I do as soon as I have the weapon in evidence. Going to speak to the owner. Manufacturer will remit the FFL holder that gun was originally shipped to. FFL holder will pull his 4473 and the. I
Immediately drive to your house and kindly ask you to come with me so you can give your side. If you lawyer up. Fine by me. Mom problem. I the get subpoena for the 4474 and explain to your boss that I am coming to your car, place of business,
Wife's car, children's car, or wherever else evidence of that weapon may have been. And a judge will grant it easily!!! Why? Because someone is DEAD and that firearm is PRIME EVIDENCE NUMBER ONE on solving the case.
If you'd have nicely gotten a receipt and a photocopy of the license of the person you sold it to them the afford mentioned scenario is moot.
Do what most cops do when we sell guns to each other and civilians...get a bill of sale and use your nice smart phone to snap a picture of their driver license. If they refuse. Then no sale.
You may not know this but even as a private person under federal law if you sell a firearm during a private transfer and that person is a convicted felon then YOU have committed an offense of that person makes up good enough story where 12 jurors and 2 alternates believe his line of crap well enough when he lies and says he told you he was crazy person or had prior convictions for felonies.
People are sinners. That is our nature. It is up to us lawful people to separate ourselves from the wolves and criminals.
Does that include the ATF guys transferring all those weapons to the Mexican gangs? Oh wait, they are part of the above the law administration in Washington.TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:You're right. You don't need a receipt. But if you transfer a firearm anywhere on Planet Earth and you don't get a receipt you're a moron.
Which being a criminal act, requires proof to a Federal jury in US District Court, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you KNEW, AT THE TIME, that you sold your gun (20 years ago) to a prohibited person. Or maybe it fell off your boat, or was stolen, etc. I don't want any of my guns used in a crime, but if I choose to sell one, my due diligence will be limited to asking to see a TXDL or LTC from the buyer (not copying the info), and gauging the nature of the person from circumstances surrounding how I met him/her. There is no federal or Texas law requiring a receipt or bill of sale for an in state transfer. If you've got a "blank check" federal magistrate that signs warrants for you to search for a bill of sale by harassing previous owners at home, work, school, looking for something that doesn't exist.... he probably won't last too long after the US District judge supervising him gets a few complaints. Not to mention the AUSA will get tired of wasting his time on your cases...TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:If any of you disbelieve me then please look up a federal criminal act known as "misprision". Misprision is where you knew someone committed a felony and you didn't report it. Yes, it is an offense.
And your attorney can always say that you were just "extremely careless," that''s a valid defense now right?ScottDLS wrote:Which being a criminal act, requires proof to a Federal jury in US District Court, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you KNEW, AT THE TIME, that you sold your gun (20 years ago) to a prohibited person. Or maybe it fell off your boat, or was stolen, etc. I don't want any of my guns used in a crime, but if I choose to sell one, my due diligence will be limited to asking to see a TXDL or LTC from the buyer (not copying the info), and gauging the nature of the person from circumstances surrounding how I met him/her. There is no federal or Texas law requiring a receipt or bill of sale for an in state transfer. If you've got a "blank check" federal magistrate that signs warrants for you to search for a bill of sale by harassing previous owners at home, work, school, looking for something that doesn't exist.... he probably won't last too long after the US District judge supervising him gets a few complaints. Not to mention the AUSA will get tired of wasting his time on your cases...TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:If any of you disbelieve me then please look up a federal criminal act known as "misprision". Misprision is where you knew someone committed a felony and you didn't report it. Yes, it is an offense.
Maybe not. Everything is relative. Threatening to notify and inconvenience my wife, children and employer is certainly intimidation. Especially if I've been cooperative with you and possibly given you investigative leads.TXPeaceOfficerDave wrote:And that is not over zealous. That's actually the very minimum required.
