I have an LTC but was Denied Purchase by FBI

[remanifest]

If you are denied, are they not suppose to give a reason?

The FFL doesn't get a reason from the FBI, they just see the disposition. If you call the NICS, they tell you they can't tell you anything over the phone, and direct you to file an appeal through the NICS website. The FBI says they'll respond within 5 days.

Governmental red tape really gets my blood boiling. They should have a really great reason for denying anyone's application, and I know for a fact that there's not a reason for me to be denied, based on their own criterion.

[FastCarry]

Didnt someone say last week the NICS system was busted? Possibly related?

[remanifest]

Didnt someone say last week the NICS system was busted? Possibly related?

Coincidentally, it was down when I walked in the door of the store today. I did ask the store owner about that, and she told me she doubted that was it.

[Jago668]

I bet $50 on human error. The clerk pressed a wrong button.... Ex clicked yes when you said no and put it into automatic review/denial. Tried it again with the correct answer and it was flagged....

Humans, what you going to do with them!

I 100% agree. I got flagged by HR when getting hired at a place as ineligible to work in the country. Because they transposed two numbers in my SSN. Also got told by the Social Security office that I was collecting benefits in San Francisco once because of something similar.

[Pawpaw]

Just curious, but why are they running you through NICS when you have an LTC?

No idea, but it's probably a CYA thing for them - I've seen them do that with guys who walk in the door after having obviously purchased several firearms through them, and who mentioned they had an LTC. Just SOP for their store, I think.

Well SOP for me, if I ever ran into that, would be to take my money elsewhere.

The ATF themselves say a valid Texas "concealed weapons permit" is an alternative to the background check: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulatio ... rmit-chart

Very nice - thank you. This is great ammo for me to bring to the store and say, "please sell me the weapon". I've already put some cash into it on a layaway program. Great people, so I'd like to do business with them now and into the future. With so many rules and regulations for small businesses to follow, I wouldn't be surprised if they were just unaware of this.

No offense, but any FFL that is not aware of the Permanent Brady Permit Chart is too incompetent to get my business. All they need to "remember" is Texas CHL/LTC = no NICS. If any Texas FFL ever told me that, I would call them a liar and walk out.

[allisji]

Just curious, but why are they running you through NICS when you have an LTC?

No idea, but it's probably a CYA thing for them - I've seen them do that with guys who walk in the door after having obviously purchased several firearms through them, and who mentioned they had an LTC. Just SOP for their store, I think.

Well SOP for me, if I ever ran into that, would be to take my money elsewhere.

The ATF themselves say a valid Texas "concealed weapons permit" is an alternative to the background check: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulatio ... rmit-chart

Very nice - thank you. This is great ammo for me to bring to the store and say, "please sell me the weapon". I've already put some cash into it on a layaway program. Great people, so I'd like to do business with them now and into the future. With so many rules and regulations for small businesses to follow, I wouldn't be surprised if they were just unaware of this.

No offense, but any FFL that is not aware of the Permanent Brady Permit Chart is too incompetent to get my business. All they need to "remember" is Texas CHL/LTC = no NICS. If any Texas FFL ever told me that, I would call them a liar and walk out.

It is still a requirement that we fill out the Form 4473 though right? The FFL just doesn't call in for the background check. Seems kinda silly to me, but I guess that Big Brother has to have some way that they can track us down and confiscate our guns...

[Pawpaw]

It is still a requirement that we fill out the Form 4473 though right? The FFL just doesn't call in for the background check. Seems kinda silly to me, but I guess that Big Brother has to have some way that they can track us down and confiscate our guns...

Yes, that's the way it works.

[RPBrown]

Unfortunately it is up to the store. They can call if they like, it's their right. However, if they call on me after I have given them my LTC, I will just leave without buying, thats my right.

[Wag2323]

A security clearance should not affect this at all. It just says that previously other than your LTC the FBI has done a background check on you and got your finger prints. In fact if it was TS then they probably looked into your family pretty good also.

[Soccerdad1995]

Odd they even checked with the FBI if you had a CHL.

Maybe having a security clearance without having an unpatched email server in your guest bathroom raised red flags. Could be something as simple as that.

The FBI recently passed a law to require intent before that is a crime, so all should be good.

[baseballguy2001]

Years ago during the purchase of a Remington 870 Wingmaster and was deferred. Shortly after that I applied for and received my CHL. I didn't know it at the time, but the next gun purchase was hassle free since with a CHL there was no call to the NICS system. That's when I went on a buying spree my wife once in a while reminds me of -- I agree with another poster, find another shop. You evidently have a security clearance, you have a LTC, why are they making you jump through another unnecessary hoop?

[E.Marquez]

Unfortunately it is up to the store. They can call if they like, it's their right. However, if they call on me after I have given them my LTC, I will just leave without buying, thats my right.

I understand and respect your position, and right to choose to not do business with an FFL that checks.
Question.
If you have an LTC, and commit a crime, have a restraining order, or have some other disqualifying issue... that hard plastic card....it’s still in your wallet yes? No one comes to your home, searches you and your house to physically remove it from your possession. You are just supposed to not use it, until the state gets around to sending you a revocation letter and you return the card.
In the interim, you have that card, should you use it to bypass a NICS check.... and the FFL failed to make the call to NICS... Do you believe a jury would not find that FFL liable should you have used that newly purchased gun in a crime to say kill your spouse?

I absolutely realize that’s a huge string of what if's ...and such a person newly banned would likely already have a firearm and just use that not purchase a new one, and LTC holders and not likely to be in a demographic that would commit such a string of criminal acts in the first place.. I get that. But the issue remains, that FFL "could have" prevented the criminal from obtaining the weapon used to kill, rob, rape...by doing a NICS check which the law allows for and is specifically set up to prevent the acts that happened.

If I owned a gun store, you and your LTC would be offered a cup of coffee, pastry or other tidbit/ drink of your choice, and a comfy seat if desired while you waited on the NICS check to finish... If you refused Id wish you well and a good day. As a customer, you’re simply not worth the liability and risk to me and my family. Likely a lawyer will say the owner incurs no liability risk under the law...Id counter with, it appears to the laymen civil trial juries often care less what the law says, and vote with feelings.

[warnmar10]

...

Question.
... Do you believe a jury would not find that FFL liable should you have used that newly purchased gun in a crime to say kill your spouse?
...

The jury who would find the FFL liable in that circumstance would likely do so whether or not a NICS was done.

[vjallen75]

Unfortunately it is up to the store. They can call if they like, it's their right. However, if they call on me after I have given them my LTC, I will just leave without buying, thats my right.

I understand and respect your position, and right to choose to not do business with an FFL that checks.
Question.
If you have an LTC, and commit a crime, have a restraining order, or have some other disqualifying issue... that hard plastic card....it’s still in your wallet yes? No one comes to your home, searches you and your house to physically remove it from your possession. You are just supposed to not use it, until the state gets around to sending you a revocation letter and you return the card.
In the interim, you have that card, should you use it to bypass a NICS check.... and the FFL failed to make the call to NICS... Do you believe a jury would not find that FFL liable should you have used that newly purchased gun in a crime to say kill your spouse?

I absolutely realize that’s a huge string of what if's ...and such a person newly banned would likely already have a firearm and just use that not purchase a new one, and LTC holders and not likely to be in a demographic that would commit such a string of criminal acts in the first place.. I get that. But the issue remains, that FFL "could have" prevented the criminal from obtaining the weapon used to kill, rob, rape...by doing a NICS check which the law allows for and is specifically set up to prevent the acts that happened.

If I owned a gun store, you and your LTC would be offered a cup of coffee, pastry or other tidbit/ drink of your choice, and a comfy seat if desired while you waited on the NICS check to finish... If you refused Id wish you well and a good day. As a customer, you’re simply not worth the liability and risk to me and my family. Likely a lawyer will say the owner incurs no liability risk under the law...Id counter with, it appears to the laymen civil trial juries often care less what the law says, and vote with feelings.

You make a very valid point, while it is well within your right to run the NCIS BG check it is within others right to refuse it. From my understanding it is up to the FFL/stores digression to check your BG on all firearms purchases. IMO since I passed the rigorous BG check from the state of Texas, I feel like I should not have to wait to pass one again. Would I take my business elsewhere? TBH it would depend on how good of a deal I was getting at the time.