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I know H110/W296 and 2400 are powders of choice for full house loads but small pistol magnum primers seem to be very hard to come by right now.

I have HP-38 right now and it seems there are some low-mid range .357 loads I can do up with regular small pistol primers. I can also do .38 Special of course but figure might as well do .357 and avoid the carbon rings in the chambers.

HS-6 looks interesting but again, the magnum primer issue.

What else do you like? I wouldn't mind finding something that works well for 9mm or .45 ACP as well.

Looks like from my research that Power Pistol, Unique and True Blue might all fit the bill for those.

See attached.
CFE Pistol
and Titegroup are excellent.

I've used Win 231 and Hogdon TiteGroup for .357 Mag loads. TiteGroup is the cleaner burning of the two. Both are an order of magnitude better than Hercules Unique in that respect....

If you're after magnum loads, I have used Blue Dot with standard primers with no problems.

Appreciate the suggestions folks. I didn't associate CFE Pistol with .357 Magnum but that's an interesting option.

Malawler wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:12 pm If you're after magnum loads, I have used Blue Dot with standard primers with no problems.

That is good to know, thank you.

I don't understand the concern over using standard small pistol primers with A-2400 in the .357 mag (or the .44 mag). In my short 10 years of re-loading, I've burned quite a few pounds of A-2400 and AA#9 (both magnum rated pistol powders) and never had the need to consider or buy magnum primers. If (and I don't) I used H110 or W296, the magnum primers would definately be used.

It's all in the books.


jd

mr surveyor wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:42 am I don't understand the concern over using standard small pistol primers with A-2400 in the .357 mag (or the .44 mag).

It's all in the books.

All of the reference material I have looked at says to use magnum primers for .357 magnum loads. It does not differentiate by powder. I am not experienced enough to deviate from proscribed loads which is why I'm asking.

My understanding was that 2400 needed magnum primers, having researched more I see in Alliant's data that is not the case.

My understanding was that 2400 needed magnum primers, having researched more I see in Alliant's data that is not the case.

I use 2400 without magnum primers without a problem.

If you're after magnum loads, I have used Blue Dot with standard primers with no problems.
Top

I do as well. Be aware that Alliant no longer recommends Blue Dot in 357 magnum with 125gr bullets due to pressure concerns. Heavier bullets are fine (I generally only load 158gr in 357 magnum).

reference:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_st ... tices.aspx

The best powder for the job depends on barrel length and the type of load you're after. There's certainly no reason to try another powder of near the same burn rate or even faster burning. As I mentioned in another thread, W231 and HP38 are identical.

For barrels 3" and under, Ramshot True Blue is excellent, accurate and has low flash, and it won't lose as much velocity from the shorter barrels. Also great for "medium" magnum loads in longer barreled revolvers. Not so much different in burn rate than HS6. V-V 3N37 & N350 are also good powders for the "medium" range loads. Going a bit slower burning for say the 3 - 5" barrel lengths, AA No 7 can provide excellent accuracy. 4" and longer, No 9 has a really good burn rate for higher velocity.

Then for 5" or longer you have the usual suspects, but they may not improve over No 9 that's similar in burn rate to Alliant 2400 which is also quite popular. I stopped using flake powders about 15 years ago, and I burned a lot of Blue Dot in .357 & .41 Magnum loads for a good many years before Alliant found some irregularities among different lots of Blue Dot, and then they stated that Blue Dot should not be used in .41 Mag. loads. I wasn't aware that they're warning against it's use in .357 Mag. Another reason for the switch to sphericals was because they are denser and much finer grained. That can add up to better uniformity of the charge-weights you throw.

Recently, I've bent my own rules a bit in terms of defense loads for the 4.2" GP100, and have been using Accurate 11 FS. The letters FS are for Flash Suppressed and it definitely delivers on that score. Very low flash. Otherwise, it's basically the same powder as W296 which H110 is copy of. I suspect the same is true for Alliant 300-MP and it's also flash suppressed.

V-V N110 is another good one, and you can buy the Vectan copy of it at a better price. It's made in France and that company and Vihta Vuori are owned by the same group. I would have no problem in trying Vectan Ba 6 1/2 which is the copy of V-V N110. But if you need to keep flash to a minimum, I'd recommend Accurate 11 FS.

On the primer issue, flake powders do not require a magnum primer. As far as 2400, it kinda gets down to the handloaders preference. Also, when magnum primers are used for all powders in the data, that data will be somewhat reduced because of the magnum primers. AA No 7 and 9 are a couple of other examples

It might not be easy these days to find .357 Magnum data where primers were selected to match the specific powder. The data I have where standard primers were used comes from the Accurate 2000 - 2002 load guides. But be advised, since that time, Accurate has had their spherical powders made in the US by St. Marks. The older powders came from EXplosia/Lovex in the Czech Republic, and now available under the Shooter's World label.

It has not been on the market for years but WW 630 is great for hot loads I was getting 1200 FPS 150 gr cast out of a 38 SP 6 inch not sure what part of the world you are in but there is a show in Pasadena this weekend one of the vendors should have SPM primer

K-Texas wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:50 pm The best powder for the job depends on barrel length and the type of load you're after.

Right now, I'm looking to load target loads for paper and steel at <25 yards. I'll be shooting these through a 6" Model 27 and a 4" Model 28. I'm sure I'll be expanding my .357 collection in the future but for now those are it.

I am looking at mid level to hot velocities as I like the thump that .357 offers over something sedate like 9mm or the push of .45 ACP. I enjoy recoil.

I'm sure I'll also load up some lighter .357 loads as well for when I want easy wheel gun plinking. I figure HP-38 would work for that.

I've received several recommendations to look at CFE Pistol here and elsewhere. I might have to give that a serious look and I think Academy around here usually carries it too.

All of the advice is very much appreciated folks, thank you.

SQLGeek wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:29 am

K-Texas wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:50 pm The best powder for the job depends on barrel length and the type of load you're after.

Right now, I'm looking to load target loads for paper and steel at <25 yards. I'll be shooting these through a 6" Model 27 and a 4" Model 28. I'm sure I'll be expanding my .357 collection in the future but for now those are it.

I am looking at mid level to hot velocities as I like the thump that .357 offers over something sedate like 9mm or the push of .45 ACP. I enjoy recoil.

I'm sure I'll also load up some lighter .357 loads as well for when I want easy wheel gun plinking. I figure HP-38 would work for that.

I've received several recommendations to look at CFE Pistol here and elsewhere. I might have to give that a serious look and I think Academy around here usually carries it too.

All of the advice is very much appreciated folks, thank you.

I have not used CFE Pistol because that roll is already filled by Silhouette which it was intended to compete with. Both are similar in burn rate and both have Flash Suppressants added. Neither, however, would be at the top of my list for Target loads in .357 Mag and they won't provide a good amount of case fill where they do better in high pressure auto cartridges. BE 86 is a double-based flake propellant that is similar and is also flash suppressed. Basically the flash suppressed version of Power Pistol.

The thing here being sensitivity or insensitivity to powder positioning. One reason that Titegroup is as popular as it is. It doesn't matter how the powder lays in the case when cartridges are being fired. Same with AA No 2. A lot of handloaders are not aware that TiteGroup is also one of the hottest burning powders you can use, and exacerbated by using it in high pressure cartridges. For the lower pressure types like .38 Sp. and .45 ACP it does fine.

In the "medium" burn rate group in regard to what's been mentioned with BE86, AA No 5, Power Pistol, True Blue, Silhouette, CFE Pistol, 3N37 and N350, or HS6, where case-fill will be around half or less, True Blue is the least sensitive to powder positioning with 3N37 being a close 2nd. Power Pistol will produce an impressive Fire-Ball out of the muzzle, enough so that I'd use BE86 over it. But as far as pressure stability, True Blue is in a class by itself. It's also capable of reproducing factory load velocity when needed. That you'll see in the Lyman 49th, and you will also see that among all of the powders used by Lyman in their .357 Magnum data, it was actually True Blue that they loaded to the highest pressures even while there are slower burners in the data.

As far as the powders best suited for full power magnum loads, the choices for me really begin with AA No 9 and 2400. That doesn't mean that AA No 7 get's left out in the cold, it's because it's in-between these 2 categories. And depending on data, No 7 doesn't fall very short of the "magnum" class of powders for full power loads.

As far as recommendations for powder, well in this day and age, a couple recommendations can easily turn into a couple hundred or a couple thousand. When I started, any application where a magnum powder wasn't being used, the herd said Unique, and well after I started handloading for that matter. And for .38 +P, maybe it is worthwhile, but magnum loads are a different animal where their own set of rules requiring greater pressure stability. I first started using True Blue in 2001 and I have never seen any handgun powder that can be used for good loads from cartridges like .38 S&W limited to 13,000 CUP in the Lyman data up to 54,000 PSI in Western's .454 Casull data.

It's actually more impressive to consider how well it does in some of the lower pressure cartridges as noted by Lyman. It's pressure stability is certainly documented. Not so commonly known with True Blue coming from Belgium is that it was the powder supplied to FN Herstal for their development of the 5.7 x 28mm. I'd also recommend reviewing the Western data for True Blue AA No 5 and No 7 for .357 Magnum.

Convenience will likely be a factor and you may need to get what's available. Try several and then try True Blue when you run across some. Hopefully you have a chronograph, and one that will give you values for standard deviation.

I should also point out for those who view Hodgdon's data that the velocities shown came from a 10" test barrel. How they can find that relevant while 4" barrels are the most common is a head scratcher. But hey, it looks good in the data!